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Old 11-21-2009, 08:09 PM
 
Location: SE Florida
1,194 posts, read 3,682,051 times
Reputation: 754

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According to Colorado University Organic fertilizer means "An organic fertilizer refers to a soil amendment derived from natural sources that guarantees, at least, the minimum percentages of nitrogen, phosphate, and potash.

Examples include plant and animal by-products, rock powders, seaweed, inoculants, and conditioners."

Synthetic fertilizers often contain, according to Seattle Times, hazardous waste and radioactive waste to fertilizer. Menonites and Amish farmers usually have swine or cows on their farms. The groups gather up their waste and apply it to ground crops....I traveled to Lancaster County PA almost every weekend for 35 years and have seen many farmers apply the "sweet bucket" to their crops by horse drawn application machines.

I found their crops to be large in size and whenever I noticed a sign stating "Organic" I knew that is not accurate. The prices were much higher than those that were not marked "Organic" and I preferred to grow my own or buy them from certified Organic markets.

To me organic is not using any animal waster to fertilize. I never used artificial or fertilizers on my plants because I made my own from unfertilized grass clippings, leaves, fruit skins etc..

My garden area was very small in size (12'x20'). They were very tasty but the crops were not large.

The City Philadelphia gathers waste from their street sewers, pile it in a very large area of Fairmount Park then turns it over a lot of times that takes a full year before the residents are allowed to use to for free. I use to gather my trash cans take them to the Park area then sift all unknowns from trash cans. I used it to put around my exterior plants but not crops because it could contain a lot of unknowns but it was very very dark and seemed to work.


....
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Old 11-21-2009, 10:04 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 23,108,584 times
Reputation: 3889
I don't know why anybody would be so foolish as to think that Amish automatically means organic. So they use a hand-held sprayer instead of a tractor-drawn one to spray on the 2-4D. Big deal.
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Old 11-21-2009, 10:15 PM
 
9,807 posts, read 13,413,496 times
Reputation: 8158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
I don't know why anybody would be so foolish as to think that Amish automatically means organic. So they use a hand-held sprayer instead of a tractor-drawn one to spray on the 2-4D. Big deal.

Have you personally seen Amish spraying herbicides/persticides with hand held sprayers?
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Old 11-21-2009, 10:20 PM
 
9,807 posts, read 13,413,496 times
Reputation: 8158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synergy1 View Post
According to Colorado University Organic fertilizer means "An organic fertilizer refers to a soil amendment derived from natural sources that guarantees, at least, the minimum percentages of nitrogen, phosphate, and potash.

Examples include plant and animal by-products, rock powders, seaweed, inoculants, and conditioners."

Synthetic fertilizers often contain, according to Seattle Times, hazardous waste and radioactive waste to fertilizer. Menonites and Amish farmers usually have swine or cows on their farms. The groups gather up their waste and apply it to ground crops....I traveled to Lancaster County PA almost every weekend for 35 years and have seen many farmers apply the "sweet bucket" to their crops by horse drawn application machines.

I found their crops to be large in size and whenever I noticed a sign stating "Organic" I knew that is not accurate. The prices were much higher than those that were not marked "Organic" and I preferred to grow my own or buy them from certified Organic markets.

To me organic is not using any animal waster to fertilize. I never used artificial or fertilizers on my plants because I made my own from unfertilized grass clippings, leaves, fruit skins etc..

My garden area was very small in size (12'x20'). They were very tasty but the crops were not large.

The City Philadelphia gathers waste from their street sewers, pile it in a very large area of Fairmount Park then turns it over a lot of times that takes a full year before the residents are allowed to use to for free. I use to gather my trash cans take them to the Park area then sift all unknowns from trash cans. I used it to put around my exterior plants but not crops because it could contain a lot of unknowns but it was very very dark and seemed to work.


....

--??????????

I don't know a single certified organic livestock farmer who doesn't use manure as fertilizer.

Where in the world do you get your info from ?
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Old 11-21-2009, 11:01 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 23,108,584 times
Reputation: 3889
Quote:
Originally Posted by marmac View Post
Have you personally seen Amish spraying herbicides/persticides with hand held sprayers?
No, I've not watched - with my own eyes - an Amish person spraying 2-4D out of a hand-held sprayer. But the very fact that there is a grant to help Amish reduce their use of high-risk pesticides is a pretty good indication that they're using them.

Also, I've been around the Amish enough to know that they have a very weird way of circumventing - yet embracing - modern things.

One Amish man I know, and bought several pieces of furniture from, had the absolute best top-end wood-working tools in his shop. I mean, we're talking state-of-the-art Delta & other tools. But since they Amish can't have electricity - and thus, power tools - he had removed the electric motors from all the power tools. Instead, they ran off a jack-shaft that was powered by a diesel engine sitting outside his shop.

They couldn't have power tools, but he had all the absolute best power tools that money could buy.


There are some very admirable things about the Amish. But not everything they do is admirable, nor is it earth-friendly, nor is it particularly worthy of praise.
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Old 11-22-2009, 06:21 AM
 
9,807 posts, read 13,413,496 times
Reputation: 8158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
No, I've not watched - with my own eyes - an Amish person spraying 2-4D out of a hand-held sprayer. But the very fact that there is a grant to help Amish reduce their use of high-risk pesticides is a pretty good indication that they're using them.

Also, I've been around the Amish enough to know that they have a very weird way of circumventing - yet embracing - modern things.

One Amish man I know, and bought several pieces of furniture from, had the absolute best top-end wood-working tools in his shop. I mean, we're talking state-of-the-art Delta & other tools. But since they Amish can't have electricity - and thus, power tools - he had removed the electric motors from all the power tools. Instead, they ran off a jack-shaft that was powered by a diesel engine sitting outside his shop.

They couldn't have power tools, but he had all the absolute best power tools that money could buy.


There are some very admirable things about the Amish. But not everything they do is admirable, nor is it earth-friendly, nor is it particularly worthy of praise.

---" But since the Amish can't have electricity,--and thus power tools--"

You are using false logic.

Just because their beliefs are they can't use electricity, does not mean they can't us tools that are converted away from electricity.

I fail to see anything hypocritic in their conversion of tools away from electricity.
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Old 11-22-2009, 06:58 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 23,108,584 times
Reputation: 3889
Quote:
Originally Posted by marmac View Post
---" But since the Amish can't have electricity,--and thus power tools--"

You are using false logic.

Just because their beliefs are they can't use electricity, does not mean they can't us tools that are converted away from electricity.

I fail to see anything hypocritic in their conversion of tools away from electricity.
I'm not saying it's hypocritical. What I am saying is that some of their logic is kind of absurd.


They can't pull an alfalfa hay baler through their fields to bale the hay. But they can buy the baler, take the wheels off it, set it in their yard and bring the cut alfalfa to it to be baled. What's the difference?

They can't have electric power tools, but they can have those exact tools - minus the electric motor - powered by a diesel engine. What's the difference?

They can't have a telephone, but they can go to the neighbor's house and use his telephone several times every day. What's the difference, other than that they're not paying for it?

They can't own a pickup truck, but they can buy stuff at a farm auction and expect their neighbor to haul the stuff home for them in his pickup truck. What's the difference, other than that they're not paying for it?



I have absolutely no problem with the Amish deciding that they want to remain pure and unadulterated by the modern world. They're welcome to do whatever they want, for whatever reasons they want. But why don't they truly separate themselves, rather than just lag 50 years behind? Some of their thinking & practices seem very convoluted.
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Old 11-22-2009, 08:02 AM
 
Location: The Raider Nation._ Our band kicks brass
1,854 posts, read 8,723,952 times
Reputation: 2308
I make no bones about it, and hide that fact from nobody. I have no use for Amish, or Mennonites.
They live throughout my community, including right next door. They are a bunch of lying, cheating, thieving, hypocrites that use their religion to ripoff unsuspecting people.

The only ones that are fooled by them are the ones that have never had any dealings with them.

They hold back their women, and treat their children like slaves. All in the name of their religion.

I have always said that the more religious a person claims to be, the more that you have to watch out for them.
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Old 11-22-2009, 11:29 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 23,108,584 times
Reputation: 3889
Quote:
Originally Posted by South Range Family View Post
I make no bones about it, and hide that fact from nobody. I have no use for Amish, or Mennonites.
They live throughout my community, including right next door. They are a bunch of lying, cheating, thieving, hypocrites that use their religion to ripoff unsuspecting people.

The only ones that are fooled by them are the ones that have never had any dealings with them.

They hold back their women, and treat their children like slaves. All in the name of their religion.

I have always said that the more religious a person claims to be, the more that you have to watch out for them.
It's funny, but I was talking to some friends of mine in SW Wisconsin, who have seen a lot of Amish come into that area in the last 25 years. Honestly, they really dislike them, though it has nothing to do with religion. They say that the Amish are just horrible neighbors.
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Old 11-22-2009, 12:40 PM
 
Location: The Raider Nation._ Our band kicks brass
1,854 posts, read 8,723,952 times
Reputation: 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
They say that the Amish are just horrible neighbors.
I can believe that.

I have put my neighbors horses away a few times after an escape. I'll put anybody's animals back in the pen, but it really bothers me to see them gone for a weekend with no food, or water. The fenced area is a muddy mess with no grass to eat.

They finally built a lean to shelter that barely gets them out of the weather. It only took three winters.

Their kids run through my woods with no shoes on. You can tell there is a double standard. The boys wear jeans with no shirts, and the girls are in dresses down to their ankles with long sleeves. All of them have filthy barefeet. That kills me. We have thorns, jaggers, and poison ivy everywhere.

They won't let their kids go to our schools, but then they let them run around like that.

This subject is a real sore spot with me, so I'll just bow out now, and no longer read this thread. I have had too many dealings with many of them to even list.
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