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Old 09-10-2013, 04:34 PM
 
222 posts, read 395,722 times
Reputation: 147

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
Just pointing out that there are very straightforward solutions to the problem, which is really unique to BPA due to the large amount of hydro in their system. Regardless, all of these "problems" have simple engineering solutions and straightforward business solutions. What often complicates things is that one party doesn't want to pay the cost of their decision. Few things are really hard when you approach the situation pragmatically.
I agree. When Bonneville powerhouse 1 opened in 1938 things were not as complicated as they are today. The dam, lock and fishways were and still are engineering marvels.

Woody Guthrie said it best:
At Bonneville now there are ships in the locks,
The waters have risen and cleared all the rocks,
Shiploads of plenty will steam past the docks,
Roll on, Columbia, roll on.

These mighty men labored by day and by night,
Matching their strength 'gainst the river's wild flight,
Through rapids and falls they won the hard fight,
Roll on, Columbia, roll on.
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Old 09-10-2013, 06:26 PM
 
Location: DC
6,495 posts, read 6,406,493 times
Reputation: 3095
I've had very little interaction directly with BPA over the years but my outside impression is that they often get caught up in their own internal politics.
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Old 09-10-2013, 06:49 PM
 
Location: Eastern Kentucky
1,237 posts, read 2,713,882 times
Reputation: 1287
Think about it, people. The initial outlay for equipment is, I will admit substantial, but the cost of clean energy is 0. Wave action, solar, wind energy. Who does the energy company pay to utilize these resources? Nobody. If they use traditional sources of power, they pay for these sources.

If the contract with the power company calls for X amount of dollars to help offset the cost of equipment, then drops to cover operating costs, it is a good deal. Otherwise, somebody is paying through the nose for an idea.
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Old 09-11-2013, 01:53 AM
 
222 posts, read 395,722 times
Reputation: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by masonsdaughter View Post
Think about it, people. The initial outlay for equipment is, I will admit substantial, but the cost of clean energy is 0. Wave action, solar, wind energy. Who does the energy company pay to utilize these resources? Nobody. If they use traditional sources of power, they pay for these sources.

If the contract with the power company calls for X amount of dollars to help offset the cost of equipment, then drops to cover operating costs, it is a good deal. Otherwise, somebody is paying through the nose for an idea.
It's a little more complicated than that, but it shows you are thinking into the future.
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Old 09-11-2013, 05:42 AM
 
Location: Minnysoda
8,554 posts, read 8,472,045 times
Reputation: 5137
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
No need to close doors, but a generator with a take or pay contract gets paid even if you don't take. In fact you're probably going to pay more to curtail him than to take the power if he is still on a PTC. I don't need an academic paper to understand power supply contracts.
Better study up on Minimum genaration alerts, RSG charges vs. make whole payments......A course on renewables in the real time vs day ahead might help as well.... I won't even go into the ancillary service market
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Old 09-11-2013, 08:45 AM
 
Location: DC
6,495 posts, read 6,406,493 times
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Originally Posted by my54ford View Post
Better study up on Minimum genaration alerts, RSG charges vs. make whole payments......A course on renewables in the real time vs day ahead might help as well.... I won't even go into the ancillary service market
No need, I'm completely familiar with all of that, especially ancillary services. Even more important, I understand the contracts that most wind providers have signed. People in the Midwest tend to think the sun rises and sets on MISO, but it's really a bit player in the overall scheme of things.
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Old 09-11-2013, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Minnysoda
8,554 posts, read 8,472,045 times
Reputation: 5137
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
No need, I'm completely familiar with all of that, especially ancillary services. Even more important, I understand the contracts that most wind providers have signed. People in the Midwest tend to think the sun rises and sets on MISO, but it's really a bit player in the overall scheme of things.
A bit player that controls a large section of the interconnected grid
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Old 09-11-2013, 12:03 PM
 
222 posts, read 395,722 times
Reputation: 147
That is a big chunk of real estate. I thought it was the Louisiana Purchase. lol. I know I'm changing the subject but do you guys think a nationwide Smart Grid is practical or even possible, not just on paper?
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Old 09-11-2013, 12:07 PM
 
222 posts, read 395,722 times
Reputation: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
I've had very little interaction directly with BPA over the years but my outside impression is that they often get caught up in their own internal politics.
Since I eat from the same trough they do I better keep quiet.
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Old 09-11-2013, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Minnesota
5,147 posts, read 6,305,557 times
Reputation: 1561
Out shopping, I saw a huge garbage truck go by. And found out something that's out there that I didn't know about. Really heavy trucks now have an engine option that burns natural gas. They call it "clean burning", and I think it is true that the emissions from natural gas have less unwanted gases than a lot of other options. I wonder how much more it costs to run these than, say, diesel. For sure, there's more and more natural gas available. Nearly all of Japan's electricity at the moment comes from natural gas. If you can run a whole country like that with it, you know it is abundant. I wonder how long truck owners, the owners of heavy trucks, will be using diesel instead of natural gas. Diesel is really expensive right now.
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