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Lot of "crabs in the bucket" syndrom here. The locals are a bigger problem for locals succeeding than haoles are at this point. Can't speak to the early history through to about the 1970's and haole behavior, but locals and local politics are the biggest issue locals face now in trying to be successful. It may have been a haole issue at one point in time, but that was a long time ago - at least a generation ago.
You maybe right about that? The saying that money is the root of all evil is also true. I will admit i don't know everything and i still have alot to learn.
The locals here in Waianae will point that out (crabs in a bucket) faster than I ever could. It is an issue here.
First, a little background about myself. I am local-asian, born and raised on the Big Island. My family went on trips alot when I was growing up, I've been to 26 states on the West Coast, East Coast, and the South. I attended the University of Hawaii and most people seem to consider me knowledgeable and well spoken. We weren't rich though, my parents worked hard to provide me and my siblings with the opportunities we had growing up.
A lot of haoles have a hard time when they move to Hawaii, racism is one of the most often cited reasons and many leave within a few years. Racism is a legitimate issue but it is more than that. It is difficult to explain the problem in it's entirety because framing it solely as a racial issue is part of the underlying problem.
Racial or Cultural?
It is a problem when haoles call it as a racial issue because there is an unspoken implication that the responsibility lies with the locals and that haoles shouldn't have to bear the responsibility for other's misconduct. Many locals would consider this indignation "haole arrogance" because from their perspective it's the haoles who don't understand propriety and locals feel indignant about being called a racist for what they feel is an appropriate response to bad behavior.
What is the difference between Local and Haole culture?
Local culture is heavily influenced by Japanese culture because a significant portion of the population is descended from immigrant Japanese who came over as sugar cane workers. Furhermore, the Japanese population has amassed a substantial amount of financial, political and social power in the local scene over the past four generations which lends weight to their mores. While local culture is not solely defined by Japanese culture it has definitely left its mark and we can find parallels to issues when haole/mainland culture encounters Japanese or other Asian cultures.
Local culture is more reserved or passive than haole/mainland culture. What this often means is that haoles often use approaches to problems or behave in a way that shock local sensibilities. It is not unlike watching a child misbehaving and making a big scene in the middle of a store because they don't know any better. Locals tend to be embarrassed to witness it and deeply uncomfortable about being there. Many say "dumb haole" with the same passion as someone in the store would say, "spoiled brat."
What Does That Mean For Me?
Here is the short of what it all means:
- Haoles constantly violate cultural mores because they were raised in a different culture. Time and immersion will help but really it's the next generation that will benefit and as long as they look haole at best they will only gain "local haole" status rather than instant acceptance like a local who was born here and looks the part.
- Acceptance will take time. First and second generation Japanese faced fierce discrimination in Hawaii and now it is now in the fourth/fifth generation that they enjoy prominence. Other ethnic groups faced similar challenges, it was a pretty big deal when Ben Cayatano became the first Filipino-American Governor in the United States. Most locals were raised hearing about how the previous generations struggled and sacrificed for the next generation. Even if we personally are generationally removed from the struggle and sacrifice it is a cultural ethos. Locals tend to have an unsympathetic view of transplants who complain about having a hard time.
- Beyond racial identity, Hawaii is an island community with strong generational and extended family ties. Everyone born and raised here has years of personal connections with other locals along with any connections that may have been formed by the previous generations. Transplants simply do not have the same social support network for finding work. Beyond that we can return to Point 1, haoles constantly violate cultural mores which can cause interpersonal problems with co-workers and with clients/customers (However with corporate chains and professional environments this is less of an issue.)
OP - you make some good points, but you also show a lot of your own bias when you write the above. I didn't run into accusations that I "constantly violated cultural mores. I was always careful to be respectful of my adopted home. I lived in Hawaii 30 years. I got along well with most of the people I met, and I started out on the Big Island. Yes, I ran into some seriously racist people here and there. Got a ticket when a woman T-boned my car because she knew the cop and I was new. Was turned down for a job because "you might not fit in this company since you're a haole." Also turned down for a loan because i was female. And had a job canceled when they found out my Japanese last name was a married name and not my "real" last name. All of those were racist events against me that had nothing to do with my actions, my personality or any aggression on my part. They were the actions of PEOPLE, not the actions of the entire group of Locals who call Hawaii their home.
FWIW - OP, you say you have traveled, but you missed one important thing... one of the groups that adapts the quickest in Hawaii is the group who visit and move there from the midwest. One of the cultural similarities between Hawaii and the midwest is the emphasis on family. Another is the idea of "taking care." Where I came from originally, if someone's barn burned down or was damaged in a storm, we all just naturally showed up the next morning with equipment, tools, supplies and food to help them get back on their feet. That's something we saw after every hurricane in Hawaii. Same cultural expectation and behavior. Midwesterners often don't have the deep seated prejudices of the deep south or the coasts. (As with all generalities, I'm sure someone here will have a boatload of examples otherwise, but it's usually a point of connection not disconnection.) The links at the bottom of this post have many other "wait a minute" posts that don't really concur with all your assertions.
Another observation - Now that I'm in Phoenix I run into a lot of Hawaii people. This is one of the places thousands have moved to from Hawaii. I hear them doing what we are cautioned against doing in Hawaii. "Back home, we..." "Why don't they do it the way we do it in the islands?" etc etc etc. People who move to somewhere new, no matter where it is or where they are from will push the boundaries and question local customs. Some make it in their adopted homes, some don't. Oh well!
Anyway, I will admit that there are occasions of racism in the islands. That being said, other'n some crap I endured from my inlaws, in 30 years those instances I listed above were the only glaring examples. That ain't bad for three decades.
I'm posting because I'm not sure why you started this thread. There are numerous threads on City Data in the Hawaii forum that have beat this topic to death. So many of the people posting who hate the term "haole" are actually not from Hawaii, haven't visited Hawaii, and really have absolutely not a shred of understanding of the extreme complexities that go along with the diversity found in the islands. I still maintain that Hawaii does diversity better than anywhere else, and it's partly because we aren't all that politically correct -- a concept that has not worked anywhere, proven by the increase rather than the decrease in racist complaints across the US since the idea of PC was introduced.
For those who are interested... before you post, please go to these forum pages listed below and do a little reading. There have been many intelligent and thoughtful responses to this conversation. Hawaii is a special place. As a pasty white redhead, it is the one place in the universe where I have felt completely at home, even in light of my few discrimination examples above. It became the Home of my Heart the day I first stepped foot on the tarmac at the Kona Airport and it remains so. One day I'll be able to live there again full time. Till then, I hope people will not use the lenses of their own cultures outside Hawaii to make judgments about what's going on there. Please don't try to "fix" everything you don't understand.
Alot of points about colonialism and ancestry have been brought up. It matters to some locals, particularly in regards to sovereignty but I won't get into it because of the rules and because honestly most people don't care. For most people it has nothing to do with how they perceive mainlanders, we lump it as haole because statistically it fits.
Two or three generations back, intermarriage between ethnic groups was uncommon these days alot more people are mixed ethnicity, particularly the 5th generation who are under the age of 10 or so. In sugar cane days racial groups lived in self-segregated communities either in the plantation camps or in their little communities if they left the plantations. Since then this self-segregation has considerably relaxed along racial lines, now it is under socio-economic lines like most of America.
There tends to be some racial clustering but some of that is because of collective action generations ago. Japanese workers participated in a collective saving system called "tanomoshi" which is the precurser to the many credit unions we have here in Hawaii. After establishing themselves outside the plantations the Japanese community collectively attempted to improve their standing, they established scholarships for young Japanese men who wanted to become doctors and lawyers so one day Japanese could become prominent business men, politicians and community leaders. Most of the first and second generation sacrificed a great deal for the sake of the third generation who became college educated and for the fourth generation who grew up in the middle or upper middle class.
It has been noted that I used alot of specific racial and classification labels, that it is because we are having an indepth discussion and does not reflect everyday usage. In it's essence these myriad labels really only divide people into one of two groups: locals and non-locals. It is an error to latch on to the racial component of the labels because as I said, even people of non-caucasian ethnicity manage to filter themselves out if they do not behave in accordance to local culture.
We call them popolo or haole. Every race in hawaii has a name in hawaiian or pidgin english except caucasian. Do you find that interesting?
Yes, that is interesting. What it tells me is that in the past Hawaiians, like many other people of the world, liked to label people by the color of their skin. However, that doesn't make it right to continue to do so in 2015.
Cowgirl, I can't speak to the Midwest because I've never been there, I've been to the Coasts and the South. I absolutely agree that part of the problem is people want things done they did it back home, that is why I say it is cultural rather than racial.
You've probably violated cultural mores constantly over the years but people are too polite to mention them or based on your appearance accepted it as par for the course, locals tend to be passive aggressive in their response rather than confrontational.
In the last few years I interact alot more with haole transplants and I've made a conscious decision to alter my behavior to be more expressive, assertive, and vocal. This makes a considerable difference in how I'm received by haoles. However I've found that I need to carefully judge if it is appropriate for the situation, particularly in large mixed groups. It's a trade off between appealing to the haole or local portion of the group, similar to whether or not I am plainspoken or use SAT words, or if I use pidgin or standard English. Sometimes when I forget to turn off or choose to use a mainland attitude I am carefully asked where I grew up. I've gotten this both from locals and from haoles who have been here for a while who note that I do not have the usual local behavior. There are times when it is appropriate for me to play up being local, if I'm getting a poke bowl or something the bowl tends to be a little fuller. "Eh, can get one poke bowl? Nah, no need napkins. Eh, thanks eh?" It seems very clear to me by being able to jump lines that it is a cultural issue.
As to if this thread is necessary, I came in with a clear position and point to make and clarify my position as needed. To be honest every repost is a repost but communities change and shift over generational lines. That is why monthly magazines can republish virtual carbon copies of the same sort of article every three years or so as audiences replace themselves, it's not new information but it's new to someone.
Two or three generations back, intermarriage between ethnic groups was uncommon these days alot more people are mixed ethnicity, particularly the 5th generation who are under the age of 10 or so. In sugar cane days racial groups lived in self-segregated communities either in the plantation camps or in their little communities if they left the plantations. Since then this self-segregation has considerably relaxed along racial lines, now it is under socio-economic lines like most of America.
There tends to be some racial clustering but some of that is because of collective action generations ago. Japanese workers participated in a collective saving system called "tanomoshi" which is the precurser to the many credit unions we have here in Hawaii. After establishing themselves outside the plantations the Japanese community collectively attempted to improve their standing, they established scholarships for young Japanese men who wanted to become doctors and lawyers so one day Japanese could become prominent business men, politicians and community leaders. Most of the first and second generation sacrificed a great deal for the sake of the third generation who became college educated and for the fourth generation who grew up in the middle or upper middle class.
According to a couple of my old college professors (the late Yuji Ichioka and the late Harry Kitano), the G.I. Bill helped more young Nikkei men in Hawaiʻi receive college educations than the tanomoshi system ever did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrCoffee808
It has been noted that I used alot of specific racial and classification labels, that it is because we are having an indepth discussion and does not reflect everyday usage. In it's essence these myriad labels really only divide people into one of two groups: locals and non-locals. It is an error to latch on to the racial component of the labels because as I said, even people of non-caucasian ethnicity manage to filter themselves out if they do not behave in accordance to local culture.
As R_Cowgirl mentioned previously, it would be a good idea if you do a search and read some of the numerous "haole threads" that are already in this forum. Here's a link to a thread that discusses the "local/haole" dichotomy… http://www.city-data.com/forum/hawai...sy-define.html
Yes, that is interesting. What it tells me is that in the past Hawaiians, like many other people of the world, liked to label people by the color of their skin. However, that doesn't make it right to continue to do so in 2015.
But at the same time all you need to do is look at the population makeup of poor communities thru rich communities in hawaii to find that the poor communities are made up mostly of native hawaiians and other local minorities and very few caucasians but the richer the communities the less native hawaiians and local minorities and more caucasian in 2015! Now i have a difficult time with this when mainland society and you tell me mcfrostyj that everyone is equal and can succeed equally. Why the lopsidedness? Are native hawaiians and local minorities lazy? But so much effort to eliminate a word.
The only execption to the population makeup is asians they seem to be fairly equally represented across the board in poor and rich communities.
I haven't read that specific book but I have read several others and my great-grandparents on both sides were immigrants. One of my grandmothers who was Chinese married my Japanese Grandfather which I've been told raised eyebrows although she wasn't shunned either. This was post-WWII as well by which time the segregation which came from plantion days was starting to break up.
I have no doubt that the GI bill helped nisei receive college educations but pre-WWII the bill didn't exist. Prior to that family would sacrifice and use the tanomoshi system to send their sons to receive education in Japan before they returned home. It was a sacrifice, the money used to educate their sons could instead have been used to open a store instead which would have provided a livelihood and status in the community. Instead it opened doors for their sons to be far more than a shop keeper or a cane field worker.
Incidentally, this was an issue in the education system in Hawaii during sugar cane days. There was a push to guide the high school curriculum along vocational lines to prepare locals to be sugar cane workers exclusively. The argument was that it was a waste of time to give locals aspirations towards attending college.
Alot of points about colonialism and ancestry have been brought up. It matters to some locals, particularly in regards to sovereignty but I won't get into it because of the rules and because honestly most people don't care. For most people it has nothing to do with how they perceive mainlanders, we lump it as haole because statistically it fits.
But issues of growth, changes in way of life and preserving the aina and culture are locals concerns. My point has always been you have two cultures that are philosophicaly in complete opposition of each other. The solution is to find a balance. Thats what i missed about the past in hawaii there was more of a balance in the culture between growth and old local hawaii. But that balance is gone all you have to do is look at oahu today and listen in forums to see and hear the fruits of unbalance. Its one thing to argue if the word haole is racist or appropriate, its another to understand why locals and others feel the way they do culturally and historic
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