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Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
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I never did like the taste of most alcoholic drinks, other than a few mixed drinks. Sometimes beer on a hot day. It was all about the buzz for me, and the loosening of social anxiety ....... thus it wasn't all that hard for me to taper down to the current intake of a few beers a month.
Other people I've known loved everything about alcohol from the very first sip - the flavor, the buzz, everything. Most of them never quit for long, though they would try periodically. These are the types that have to go cold turkey off it, can't taper off, and benefit from going to AA. There's a method to concentrate on that helps them think of something else beside the cravings, and they get a "sponsor" who is supposed to help them at any time they think they are going to backslide. There's a social group that will not scorn them like most do in regular life.
Even so, I think many of the really hardcore cases won't get off alcohol permanently. Some can't even drink O'Douls alcohol-free beer, which actually tastes ok, without backsliding. Some even drink right before the meeting though they may feel very guilty about it.
I suggest you steer clear of AA or any other 12 step program. The effectiveness is overrated and potential harm in their methodology is underrated.
I second Marlowe's suggestion regarding SMART recovery or Moderation Management. He may not want to quit altogether, at least not right now, so you are probably better off suggesting MM to start.
He's a big guy, so what he is drinking isn't having the same effect as it would on a smaller person. 5 drinks a day for him is probably what it takes to feel the effect that 3 would in a smaller person.
That said, a smaller person having three drinks a day may have a real problem, or it may be just habitual.
For him to be defensive and turn it back around to you sounds like it could be a real problem that could get worse. It also sounds like maybe you don't have the best relationship and that might need some work. Or he's just that kind of guy, who doesn't take criticism or blame well, and that is part of what is giving him so much stress at work...
Doesn't sound like he'd consider therapy or counseling of any kind.
I third the Smart Recovery option vs AA for him.
Yes, OP, it is a lot. However some things might work in his favor in this department and have a somewhat harm reducing effect such as obesity, fast metabolism, exercise and nutrition.
People always jump all over me for merely mentioning such facts so let me say in advance that i am not trying to minimize. I am merely adding context.
I think I drank the way I did because I was seeking a state of consciousness.
If y'all could just outgrow your vices, we'd have no need for silly topics like this here one.
You are a boring radical atheist with an axe to grind, an Agent Orange cultist, or making a living off of the treatment industry.
My my, so many ASSumptions about me. While boring is a matter of opinion, radical atheist Agent Orange cultist is laughable. Newsflash: Christians can consider the teachings of AA to border on sacrilege. As far as making a living off the treatment industry, I recommended two FREE alternatives to the OP, plus it would indicate you know little about the treatment industry. Approximately 80% of the treatment industry pushes the 12 steps on people, so ... no.
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Originally Posted by McGowdog
Wrong. Take what you need and leave the rest is Middle of the Road horse bleep. Do A.A. or don't.
At least you are willing to admit you demand full obedience to the cultish demands of AA up front, instead of sucking people in with platitudes like "fake it till you make it".
Quote:
Originally Posted by McGowdog
Circular Anti/ex-A.A. logic.
Either you do A.A. and you stay sober or you do not. If you do not, you're drunk, assuming you're a real alcoholic to begin with. All sorts of folks wind up in A.A. Unfortunately, a lot of non-alkies wind up there too.
I'd rather have a bottle infront of me than a frontal labotomy. Either you're alky or you're not. If you're not, don't go to A.A. Hang out in front of a barber shop long enough, you WILL get a haircut.
The circular logic belongs to AA. The repeated failures of AA are brushed off as failures of the individuals doing the steps. Whatever happened to the only requirement for AA membership being a sincere desire to stop drinking? When AA fails, AA puts the blame on the drinker not working the steps well enough, or they're deemed incapable of being honest with themselves, one of the poor hopeless few AA can't help. If someone quits or moderates on their own, they're not "real" alcoholics. AA has a multitude of excuses for the program not working, and dismisses solutions others have as not workable for alcoholics, as if AA has the monopoly on determining what makes someone an alcoholic.
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Originally Posted by McGowdog
Who cares? Why all the rhetoric? Did someone ask for the Agent Orange playbook?
Who cares? Why, I believe the OP cares about her husband drinking too much. She shared her concerns. I shared my thoughts. Why, I believe that's what discussion forums are all about.
You seem mighty concerned about this Agent Orange.
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Originally Posted by McGowdog
A bunch more middle-of-the road garbage. I've been to meetings all over Colorado for a long time. Some meetings are full of head-knodding droolers, folks institutionalized in A.A., etc. I'm a grown up. I can figure out what's bs and what's effective. A few spiritual principles is what A.A. is all about. They are not new creations of the early 20th Century. They're age-old and tested principles. Courage, neutrality, willingness, acceptance, reason, Love, Joy, Peace, yada yada. Really malevolent stuff, huh?
Plenty of other ways to learn age-old and tested principles. Plenty of groups claim them but don't deliver. I happen to believe AA is the latter, and I'm a grown up with a BS meter of my own.
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Originally Posted by McGowdog
Off-Topic.
The underlying reasons people drink and why AA can exacerbate them is off-topic? But my religious beliefs are on-topic? Alrighty then.
The only requirement for A.A. membership is not the only requirement for having the program working for you.
Go to the Orange Pages and you will see the exact play book for anti A.A. rhetoric right there. I've seen and heard much of it.
Does A.A. have problems? Sure.
If you can get and stay sober and live a happy and useful life without A.A., do it.
By all means, do it.
If you can control and enjoy your drinking, do that.
Back to my off-topic comment. You're talking about the working of the 4th and 5th steps... even the actions of the 9th step. This is way above your pay grade. Go ahead and consider A.A. to be a dangerous cult. Move along, nothing to see here.
But meanwhile, alcoholics will drink, folks will suffer, and folks will get sent to A.A. to recover and get sent to SMART or RR or MM or BB... where they can sit around and ***** about A.A.
Meanwhile, I'll try to make A.A. a better place and help new folks read the black on the white and keep A.A. in A.A.
All your complaints about A.A. are the same complaints folks have about religion. It's all a matter of separating truth from doctorine.
Also, if you ain't alky, please don't go to A.A.
If you are alky, just drink away but stop breaking the law.
Come on folks. We CAN put A.A. out of business if we just stop goofing around.
Back to my off-topic comment. You're talking about the working of the 4th and 5th steps... even the actions of the 9th step. This is way above your pay grade. Go ahead and consider A.A. to be a dangerous cult. Move along, nothing to see here.
But meanwhile, alcoholics will drink, folks will suffer, and folks will get sent to A.A. to recover and get sent to SMART or RR or MM or BB... where they can sit around and ***** about A.A.
You've made many incorrect assumptions about me so far, so your determination of what is or is not above my pay grade is not credible in the slightest.
And your assessment of other recovery groups just proves it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by McGowdog
Come on folks. We CAN put A.A. out of business if we just stop goofing around.
I've talked to many counselors about alternative recoveries. I have no need to slam them, doubt them, nor try them.
Mine works for me.
A lot of times, alcoholics seeking recovery also have legal troubles. Contrary to popular belief, the corrections "industry" is motivated to help folks get healthy and comply.
Are there treatment centers out there posing as 12 step based and charging money? Yes. Are they A.A. affiliated in any way? Absolutely not. Is Hazleton A.A.? No.
Anyway, I talk to these counselors and ask them about alternative recoveries. They are the ones who say they get no results with real alcoholics and all they really do is sit around and complain how awful and religious A.A. is and how great they will be one day.
Here's the truth. A willing alcoholic who really wants help, we can do no wrong. But for the unwilling alcoholic, we can do no right.
Don't tell me I don't know you. I've seen the likes of you since before the internet. I've been seek8ng recovery for 31 years. And you?
Sigh...my husband used to drink too, but it wasn't liquor it was a 12 pack of beer , or 1/2 gallon to a gallon of wine to himself. Now they are trying to find out what is wrong with is stomach. My grandfather used to drink daily, until he wound up with stomach cancer, my husband's stomach has been killing him and it now makes me wonder. His new thing is Liquor balls...horribly strong can't be helpful at all. Yup, and then it's the liver....my husband's numbers are all messed up, but multiple ultrasounds showed fatty liver...I still warn him about it though....oh well, what can you do but say "I told you so."
Jumping to the end, but my question would be: How does this drinking affect the OP's husband?
Sure, that is a pretty stout amount, but just the volume wouldn't be my first concern.
Is he mean? Is he unable to function past a certain time? Ignoring you in favor of the booze? Spending too much on the booze? Having health issues?
That to me is more important that the quantity. I know people that are complete A-holes after their first beer (and they drink 2 a week) and I know people that have 2-3 cocktails every night before dinner and are absolutely pleasant, lucid, and responsible. And then there are the people that drink A LOT, EVERY DAY, and you don't want to be around them - drunk or sober because sober is really just hung over.
Again, for me, it's the affect of the alcohol I'd worry about versus the quantity. (Hard for that much to NOT have an affect though).
I've heard that programs like AA have a worse success rate than even just trying to go cold turkey or self moderation does, but I don't know if that's actually the case. It has always seemed to me that the "you must quit all alcohol absolutely and forever" approach was just setting people up for failure. One sip erases months or even years worth of progress. There are some cases where that is indeed necessary, particularly if someone is too far gone and their health demands it, but for a lot of people I think that just sets up obstacles to success that they do not really need. I also don't like the way they define who an alcoholic is. Basically anyone who is ever accused of being one or ever wonders if they are one, is one. Either they can admit it and be an open alcoholic, or they can deny it and of course be in denial. There's no option where you are not one.
The option would lie in the definition. A person could be a "Hard Drinker" and not an "Alcoholic."
Hard Drinkers behaviors and actions can mimic Alcoholics in many ways, yet at some point they
are able to stop or control their problem drinking using will-power & self-knowledge. They may
even go to a treatment program and resolve their problem for good.
The danger arises when a real alcoholic wants to be a hard drinker because he is denying his
alcoholism, then kills himself trying to prove it.
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