Were the Nazis Socialists?(Moved Posts) (80's, slave, Americans, government)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
To reinforce the point that Nazism was in fact Leftist, we might also note: Hitler always campaigned as a socialist and champion of the worker and the full name of Hitler's political party — generally abbreviated as "Nazi" — says it all: Die Nazionalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiter Partei ("The National Socialist German Worker's Party"). So, as a good socialist does, Hitler justified everything he did in the name of "the people" (Das Volk). The Nazi State was, like the Soviet State, all-powerful, and the Nazi party, in good socialist fashion, supervised German industry minutely. And of course Hitler and Stalin were initially allies. It was only the Nazi-Soviet pact that enabled Hitler's conquest of Western Europe. The fuel in the tanks of Hitler's Panzers as they stormed through France was Soviet fuel.
You are hung up on the name of a political party, without recognizing that their political orientation is not relevant to the name, it's relevant to their policies. The Nazi party policies had nothing to do with socialism, and the antipathy of the actual socialists in Germany at the time are a testament to Hitler's complete rejection of socialist doctrine. Hitler REJECTED socialism. He was a Nationalist through and through, with fascist leanings. And EVERY politician, EVERY one of them, justifies their actions in the name of the people. Even kings justify their actions in the name of the people. What a silly argument.
We are socialists because we see in socialism,that is the union of all citizens, the only chance to maintain our racial inheritance and to regain our political freedom and renew our German state. Socialism is the doctrine of liberation for the working class. It promotes the rise of the fourth class and its incorporation in the political organism of our Fatherland, and is inextricably bound to breaking the present slavery and regaining German freedom. Socialism, therefore, is not merely a matter of the oppressed class, but a matter for everyone, for freeing the German people from slavery is the goal of contemporary policy. Socialism gains its true form only through a total fighting brotherhood with the forward-striving energies of a newly awakened nationalism. Without nationalism it is nothing, a phantom, a mere theory, a castle in the sky, a book. With it it is everything, the future, freedom, the fatherland!
The sin of liberal thinking was to overlook socialism’s nation-building strengths, thereby allowing its energies to go in anti-national directions. The sin of Marxism was to degrade socialism into a question of wages and the stomach, putting it in conflict with the state and its national existence. An understanding of both these facts leads us to a new sense of socialism, which sees its nature as nationalistic, state-building, liberating and constructive.
The bourgeois is about to leave the historical stage. In its place will come the class of productive workers, the working class, that has been up until today oppressed. It is beginning to fulfill its political mission. It is involved in a hard and bitter struggle for political power as it seeks to become part of the national organism. The battle began in the economic realm; it will finish in the political. It is not merely a matter of wages, not only a matter of the number of hours worked in a day — though we may never forget that these are an essential, perhaps even the most significant part of the socialist platform — but it is much more a matter of incorporating a powerful and responsible class in the state, perhaps even to make it the dominant force in the future politics of the fatherland. The bourgeoisie does not want to recognize the strength of the working class. Marxism has forced it into a straitjacket that will ruin it. While the working class gradually disintegrates in the Marxist front, bleeding itself dry, the bourgeoisie and Marxism have agreed on the general lines of capitalism, and see their task now to protect and defend it in various ways, often concealed.
We are socialists because we see the social question as a matter of necessity and justice for the very existence of a state for our people, not a question of cheap pity or insulting sentimentality. The worker has a claim to a living standard that corresponds to what he produces. We have no intention of begging for that right. Incorporating him in the state organism is not only a critical matter for him, but for the whole nation. The question is larger than the eight-hour day. It is a matter of forming a new state consciousness that includes every productive citizen. Since the political powers of the day are neither willing nor able to create such a situation, socialism must be fought for. It is a fighting slogan both inwardly and outwardly. It is aimed domestically at the bourgeois parties and Marxism at the same time, because both are sworn enemies of the coming workers’ state. It is directed abroad at all powers that threaten our national existence and thereby the possibility of the coming socialist national state.
Explanation: “The thinking worker comes to Hitler,” the caption says. A communist and a socialist are accusing each other of betraying the working class.
Socialism is possible only in a state that is united domestically and free internationally. The bourgeoisie and Marxism are responsible for failing to reach both goals, domestic unity and international freedom. No matter how national and social these two forces present themselves, they are the sworn enemies of a socialist national state.
We must therefore break both groups politically. The lines of German socialism are sharp, and our path is clear. We are against the political bourgeoisie, and for genuine nationalism! We are against Marxism, but for true socialism! We are for the first German national state of a socialist nature! We are for the National Socialist German Workers Party!
-------------------------------------------------
The source: Joseph Goebbels and Mjölnir, Die verfluchten Hakenkreuzler. Etwas zum Nachdenken (Munich: Verlag Frz. Eher, 1932).
This is all you've got??? One speech.
Goebbels was a socialist early on. When he chose to be loyal to Hitler, he followed Hitler's complete rejection of socialism. That's history. Not propaganda.
Our Führer’s greatest goal is to make the whole nation National Socialist. One of the most important and difficult duties of a local group leader [of the Nazi Party] is therefore to prepare the entire population of his area for this new kind of humanity.
The masses are in part still politically indifferent. The task is to saturate them with the depths of the National Socialist worldview, a task that is as difficult as it is decisive for our political future. A great people like the Germans will master its historical mission only if it is filled with fanatical faith and is convinced of the necessity to struggle for its eternal political existence. In our case: Our German people must accept the will of the party and state, and gradually become filled with the worldview of National Socialist thinking. An important tool in this process is the public political meeting. More than any other method, it is able to lead broad sections of the population to National Socialism and its faith, putting an end to the “unpolitical attitudes” of German citizens once and for all.
The source: Max Crooner, “Die öffentliche politische Versammlung — wie sie der Redner sieht,” Unser Wille und Weg, 7 (1937), pp. 54-59.
The Nazis are widely known as nationalists, but that label is often used to obscure the fact that they were also socialists. Some question whether Hitler himself actually believed in socialism, but that is no more relevant than whether Stalin was a true believer. The fact is that neither could have come to power without at least posing as a socialist. And the constant emphasis on the fact that the Nazis were nationalists, with barely an acknowledgment that they were socialists, is as absurd as labeling the Soviets "internationalists" and ignoring the fact that they were socialists (they called themselves the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics). Yet many who regard "national" socialism as the scourge of humanity consider "international" socialism a benign or even superior form of government.
The latest Right Wing nonsense making the rounds. Hitler was in bed with the German industrialists and the professional military caste, you know, the guys with "von" in front of their names. Some socialist.
Next the wingnuts will be telling us Franco was a socialist. Hell; while we're at it we might as well throw in Ivan the Terrible, Caligula and the Sheriff of Nottingham.
Interesting that this "Susan" jasper is willing to take Goebbels at his word.
I'm sorry, but that's simply wrong, just because they called themselves National Socialists doesn't mean that they were socialist. Socialism is the idea of a classless society, Nazis society was very class-oriented with warrior and leader as the highest class, and jews and workers as the lowest class, socialism dreams of a coiety without a leader, national socialism had Hitler, probably the msot glorified leading figure in history. Socialism dreams about a society where there are no nationa states anymore, and people live together without any remark on their origin or "race", while the Nazis were the most nationalist / patriotic / race fanatic people ever. Plus the Nazi system was financed by big industrialists, factory owners and bankers, while they would probably be the greatest enemies of socialists. Nazis embraced ocialist symbols and evn language to attrt working cass vote in Germay, but their idea of ehancig german worker's living standards was to get rid of jews to lower unemployment, socialism dreams of a society where only those who want to have to work and moneyis unneccessary.
Those are the differences in theory, of course if you compare Stalin's Russia and Hitler's Germany you wouldn't find much difference, but in theory socialism and national socialism are complete opposites.
Sorry if I made a lot of mistakes, I can't concentrate when people say things without thinking about them without giving arguments just to provoke.
Luke81 !!! ... Agreed !
An excellent Post !
It is interesting that there appears to be a great deal of facination or at the very least a marginal interest here on good old CDF regarding Nazi Germany & the Third Reich era of history.
From a historical perspective the Nazi Party and it's absolute leader A. Hitler have certainly revealed to us just what can be accomplished on the world scene by just one absolutely determined man and his equally determined political party minions.
An indepth study of "Factual History" regarding the Nazi's death grip on Europe during WW11 further reveals the extremely alarming realization of the miracle that saved the United States from becoming a totally conquered people under the absolute dictatorship of the Nazi Leader.
And that miracle would be attributed to none other than hundreds of thousands of proud and brave American Soldier's who gave their all ... to save our azzzzzes from that very nightmare !
Next time we see an American Soldier in public ... Thank him or her for their service to this nation ! It would be the right thing for all of us to.
Wonderful young folks just like these have been saving this nation from destruction for a hell of a long time !
We owe them a debt that can never be repaid and we have very much to be thankful for! Thanks / Old Sgt. Lamar
Our Führer’s greatest goal is to make the whole nation National Socialist. One of the most important and difficult duties of a local group leader [of the Nazi Party] is therefore to prepare the entire population of his area for this new kind of humanity.
The masses are in part still politically indifferent. The task is to saturate them with the depths of the National Socialist worldview, a task that is as difficult as it is decisive for our political future. A great people like the Germans will master its historical mission only if it is filled with fanatical faith and is convinced of the necessity to struggle for its eternal political existence. In our case: Our German people must accept the will of the party and state, and gradually become filled with the worldview of National Socialist thinking. An important tool in this process is the public political meeting. More than any other method, it is able to lead broad sections of the population to National Socialism and its faith, putting an end to the “unpolitical attitudes” of German citizens once and for all.
The source: Max Crooner, “Die öffentliche politische Versammlung — wie sie der Redner sieht,” Unser Wille und Weg, 7 (1937), pp. 54-59.
Not_Seeking_Susan !!! ... Interesting Indeed !
I may have been correct in my earlier post regarding the perhaps more than marginal interest here on good old CDF regarding A. Hitler, the Nazi Party and the rise of the Third Reich !
It appears also that the folks here on CDF are demonstrating the ability to logically and calmly discuss the specifics of a vastly important piece of world history which to this day remains a facination and a much studied event for seemingly a great amount of folks around the globe !
The current discussion is a credit to those with opposing views whom agree to disagree in a most civilized manner ! Good Show !
Most arguments made against my previous posts have been a sort of a which is the "real soda" type argument - Coke or Pepsi.
I'm sure Maoists, Communists, Socialists or other ideologues disagree as to what is the practice and theory of socialism, but the Nazis also felt the same way about the other ideologues.
The Nazis' propaganda and action speak for themselves and the Nazis certainly called themselves socialists in all of their propaganda, speeches, etc. This is documented over and over, and yet some deny it.
Its funny, I have always debated this in college. Anyone wonder why Nazi Germany hated Communist U.S.S.R? Because politically they are not very far apart in theory. Socialists take money from the wealthy and redistribute to everyone. Communism does the same. The difference is in ownership.
Nazi Germany allowed private ownership of businesses, and Communist Russia did not. That is the real difference, which is economic in nature. The problem is that Nazi Germany never really did distribute the wealth, they took the wealth and dumped it into their military. I would argue that Nazi Germany was NOT socialist at all and really a capitalist institution with all facets of government controlled by one party.
Nazism was inspired by Italian Fascism, an invention of hardline Communist Benito Mussolini. During World War I, Mussolini recognized that conventional socialism wasn't working. He saw that nationalism exerted a stronger pull on the working class than proletarian brotherhood. He also saw that the ferocious opposition of large corporations made socialist revolution difficult. So in 1919, Mussolini came up with an alternative strategy. He called it Fascism. Mussolini described his new movement as a "Third Way" between capitalism and communism. As under communism, the state would exercise dictatorial control over the economy. But as under capitalism, the corporations would be left in private hands.
Hitler followed the same game plan. He openly acknowledged that the Nazi party was "socialist" and that its enemies were the "bourgeoisie" and the "plutocrats" (the rich). Like Lenin and Stalin, Hitler eliminated trade unions, and replaced them with his own state-run labor organizations. Like Lenin and Stalin, Hitler hunted down and exterminated rival leftist factions (such as the Communists). Like Lenin and Stalin, Hitler waged unrelenting war against small business.
Hitler regarded capitalism as an evil scheme of the Jews and said so in speech after speech. Karl Marx believed likewise. In his essay, "On the Jewish Question," Marx theorized that eliminating Judaism would strike a crippling blow to capitalist exploitation. Hitler put Marx's theory to work in the death camps.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
