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Old 12-28-2009, 05:29 PM
 
Location: NC
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The Mfecane, it is very interesting period in 19th century Southern Africa, but rarely ever written about or discussed.
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Old 12-28-2009, 07:36 PM
 
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That sounds very interesting, and something I never heard of. Can you tell us more about it???
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Old 12-28-2009, 07:58 PM
 
Location: NC
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From what I learned in college African History...The Mfecane is a Zulu word for "Crushing or Scattering" and was a period of intermittent warfare in Southern Africa in the early 19th century. It started a century before when Europeans, mainly Portuguese, introduced Maize to Southern Africa and began trading firearms for Ivory. Maize allowed the peoples of Southern Africa to produce agricultural surpluses, which allowed for the creation of armies and the creation of a sort of tribal feudal system (though I am a bit uncomfortable about using feudal outside of a European context). Maize also required a lot of land and water so these tribes/kingdoms began fighting each other. These tribes/kingdoms began to build impressive forts, have marriage alliances and work to drive hostile neighbors off their lands. It was ended when Shaka and his Zulu people conquered most of the other kingdoms and united the region.

I think, though I am not certain, that it also led to the creation of the tiny Southern African enclaves of Swaziland and Lesotho.

It seemed to be an interesting period with very little information on it. I would really like to learn more about it.

Last edited by Randomstudent; 12-28-2009 at 08:07 PM..
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Old 12-30-2009, 10:29 AM
 
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Not surprisingly Western histories give limited (or more limited) attention to areas where there were no Europeans. Its also the case that periods that have limited written records get little attention.

To answer this question you have to be careful to specify where the limited attention is comming from. Most of US inherently are thinking of western treatments of history, the reality is likely different if we were having this discussion in Japan or India for example.
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Old 12-30-2009, 10:30 AM
 
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I think, though I am not certain, that it also led to the creation of the tiny Southern African enclaves of Swaziland and Lesotho.
I think these were created from refugees from Shaka's wars.
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Old 12-30-2009, 04:20 PM
 
Location: NC
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Originally Posted by noetsi View Post
I think these were created from refugees from Shaka's wars.
The Mfecane was a result of Shaka's war. I do not think I described it well in the first post I tend to strain of consciousness write and sometimes it does not come out well. The Mfecane was the end of the period of waring tribes/kingdoms period in South Africa. It was caused by Shaka uniting the region. When Shaka conquered his kingdom he displaced a lot of these tribes/kingdoms resulting in the one last hurrah of violence...the Mfecane. Essentially during the Mfecane all the displaced warlords, and tribe/kingdoms from the areas he conquered move to areas outside of Shaka's domains and conquered/attempting to conquer those areas in order to re-establish themselves.
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Old 12-30-2009, 08:11 PM
 
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The present Lesotho (then called Basutoland) emerged as a single polity under the Great King Moshoeshoe I in 1822. Son of Mokhachane, a minor chief of the Bakoteli lineage, Moshoeshoe formed his own clan and became a chief around 1804. Between 1821 and 1823 he and his followers settled at the Butha-Buthe Mountain, joining with former adversaries in resistance against the Lifaqane associated with the reign of Shaka Zulu from 1818 to 1828
Lesotho - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Which is what I meant. Swaziland on the other hand seems to not have been effected by the events of Mfecane or Shaka.

Swaziland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 12-31-2009, 04:32 PM
 
Location: NC
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Originally Posted by noetsi View Post
Lesotho - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Which is what I meant. Swaziland on the other hand seems to not have been effected by the events of Mfecane or Shaka.

Swaziland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It was. Sobhuza I created modern day Swaziland when he moved his people further into Swaziland and conquered it to escape the fighting between Zwide and Dingiswayo (Shaka's predecessor) at the start of the Mfecane.

Sobhuza I of Swaziland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 01-01-2010, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Orange County, CA
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A very little known piece of modern history could be the 1918-1919 North Russia Campaign. This was a joint British-French-American incursion into Northern Russia at the end and short time after World War 1. Since Russia was out of the war and revolution raging, the allied plan was to assist the White Russians and keep large amounts of military material in and around Archangel from falling into the hands of the Germans or the Bolsheviks. The US committed more than 5000 troops to the venture. The campaign proved to be a failure, and the allies withdrew in the spring 1919. It can be said that Americans and Russian Communists shed each others blood long before the Cold War was even a concept.
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Old 01-01-2010, 03:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
The Civil War. World War II. Is there a historic era in the past two centuries that you'd like to know more about?
The Great Depression and the parallels/differences we see today.
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