Huge ER Bill from Texas Children's Hospital (buy, deductible)

[Zhang Fei]

Originally Posted by coconutbutter

Most people who need services can actually afford them and have substantial funds accrued through compulsory Medisave due to nationalized health care

Singapore's system is nationalized without being socialized in the sense that everyone pays for his own medical expenses via forced savings. It's therefore sustainable without running up the huge unfunded obligations that single-payer systems tend to do.

[nana053]

Originally Posted by Zhang Fei

I was making the point that Hong Kong and Singapore are places where would-be patients need to demonstrate, up front, the ability to pay for medical treatment, or are refused service, and they are developed areas by most measures.

Not true for Hong Kong unless they want to use a private hospital.

Healthcare seen as Hong Kong birthright__English_SINA.com

To many of us who have worked and lived overseas, the Hong Kong healthcare system was the ultimate social safety net that never failed to lend us a strong sense of security. It was comforting to know that if we ever fell ill, we could always return home for care.

I was rushed to hospital after a bad car accident in Hong Kong many years ago. None of the nurses or doctors asked me if I had insurance coverage, or enough money to pay the bill. They just gave me the medical care I needed. The next morning, a stern-faced hospital administrator came to visit me in the ward. I did not know what to expect until she asked me if I needed social service assistance for myself and family.

I stayed in hospital for a week and was charged only for the meals. The total bill was HK$35, and the food was actually not bad at all.

Singapore's is also pretty good.

Fixing the US Health Care System: Look To Singapore | FreedomWorks

They call it the three Ms - Medishield, Medifund and Medisave. Medishield is optional catastrophic insurance run by the government. Should a consumer opt to use Medishield, the cost of services has a cap with the government covering the majority of the ultimate cost. Singaporeans can alternatively purchase private catastrophic insurance.

Medifund covers the bottom 10 percent of income earners and is funded by interest the government has accrued from their initial investment in the program. The program currently has $3 billion in interest. Eldershield is also available to cover long-term medical care for those with severe disabilities and the elderly. Between Medishield, Medifund and Eldershield, the left’s goal of universal health coverage is achieved with the added benefit of all being optional and very low cost to the government.

The glue that holds it all together can be found in Medisave, which translates to health savings accounts (HSAs) in America. 85 percent of Singaporeans participate in the program, which redirects 20 percent of their income into a Medisave account. For many Medisave pays for Medishield. However, Singaporeans maintain complete control of their Medisave accounts and can choose from whichever public and private insurance options best meet their needs. In giving citizens ultimate control over their health spending, as opposed to the government like in the U.S., Singapore has incorporated the free-market approach that those on the right know creates success

[chris_ut]

oceangaia can obviously do nothing but regurgitate right wing talking points. There is no free market in emergency medicine, when you are having a medical emergency you can't call around and get 3 quotes and go with the best price you go to the closest place and they charge you whatever the hell they want if it is justified or not. List prices are often 5 to 10 times what Medicare pays which is actual cost of service plus a small profit, insurance companies usually pay 2-3 times over Medicare so if you are paying out of pocket you are getting royally screwed.

[jasonamd]

Originally Posted by chris_ut

oceangaia can obviously do nothing but regurgitate right wing talking points. There is no free market in emergency medicine, when you are having a medical emergency you can't call around and get 3 quotes and go with the best price you go to the closest place and they charge you whatever the hell they want if it is justified or not. List prices are often 5 to 10 times what Medicare pays which is actual cost of service plus a small profit, insurance companies usually pay 2-3 times over Medicare so if you are paying out of pocket you are getting royally screwed.

A lot of hospitals have different prices and discounts if you don't have insurance at all. Still more expensive than if you had insurance, but a lot less than what gets billed if you do have insurance.

Example here:
Patient Financial - Clear Lake Medical Center

[Htown2013]

Originally Posted by oceangaia

Those onerous politicians and greedy lawyers and doctors are US, collectively, as a society. Everyone and their brother will beotch all day long about frivolous lawsuits but the instant they themselves see a shot at a lotto payday over some perceived negligence they are out there shopping lawyers too.

What a tragedy that a large portion of our society has come to this. Other than job loss, ridiculously burdensome healthcare bills are the #1 reason for bankrupcty and financial ruin for otherwise self sufficient hardworking families who do not want handouts. Please don't get me started on higher education and nursing homes.

[HookTheBrotherUp]

I will ask my elementary aged child to ask at school how it is done. Half of her school classmates are of parents who are in this country without documents. (HISD). The mothers have babies, surgeries, accidents and every other expense that would otherwise make it a hardship for people here legally. But yet, somehow they manage, and they are always happy.

You never see Mexicans, or Latino's begging on the streets in Houston, never. If they are Latino, they are natural born citizens. However, go to any hospital and all of the 'undocumented' women are having babies left and right; go to an emergency room and half of the people in there are 'undocumented', and they don't pay anything. If they get billed, they don't pay anyway. Go to any social service, you might see the same people you saw earlier.

I guess if you get desperate, you can denounce your citizenship, learn to speak another language, and get all the benefits for free.

</End_Sarcasm>

[Htown2013]

Originally Posted by chris_ut

oceangaia can obviously do nothing but regurgitate right wing talking points. There is no free market in emergency medicine, when you are having a medical emergency you can't call around and get 3 quotes and go with the best price you go to the closest place and they charge you whatever the hell they want if it is justified or not. List prices are often 5 to 10 times what Medicare pays which is actual cost of service plus a small profit, insurance companies usually pay 2-3 times over Medicare so if you are paying out of pocket you are getting royally screwed.

Agree. THIS is horrible. The people who need it most get scewed the most
Why are hospital so unbelievably insanely expensive? There has to be a reason
It didn't used to be this way.

[hounewhome1]

I wish there were two options:

1.) I won't sue the hospital and I'm ready to sign a waiver - please give me a cheaper rate.

2.) I won't sign a "I'll sue the hospital" waiver - charge me the "Chargmaster" rates i.e. 5 dollars for an alcohol wipe and 15 dollars for a sip of tylenol.

Anyway, come Tuesday I'll start calling to request for discount, let' see how it goes. Long journey ahead. I feel for people who don't have insurance at all and are are legals and need to maintain the credit rating etc. It's easy for illegals; they don't have an SSN and they don't need to worry about their record.

I have a job where they check run checks for credit/driving/drug and I can't afford to have any blemish on my record so I have to pay up; getting a 50% discount on 12K and 2 years to pay off will be Christmas for me.

[JasonAndJulie]

I think if you don't have a social or credit what does it matter anyway? They have no way to hurt you if you don't pay. Me or you on the other hand, get it slapped on our credit.

[Htown2013]

Originally Posted by JasonAndJulie

I think if you don't have a social or credit what does it matter anyway? They have no way to hurt you if you don't pay. Me or you on the other hand, get it slapped on our credit.

THIS is appalling and is an insult and slap in the face to hardworking Americans of all backgrounds.