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You didn't hurt my feelings. I'm sorry you've had trouble, and I agree that a common language is key to communication. I also believe in personal freedom, though. There are limits as to how far we can go to make sure everyone speaks English. Can we make sure all gov't communication is in English? Sure. That doesn't mean people will learn it, though. They can always get help with the gov't stuff and get by just fine. We can't change what language people speak in their homes and businesses, nor should we try to.
First; Wanting people to learn other languages than English when living in the US is NOT the same as saying "I'm pro-illegal immigration". That's two different things.
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Originally Posted by North Carolina Native
It gets to me a little when I buy a product and can't find the instructions in English as to how to use the product.
Then you should come to Sweden or any Scandinavian/European country. Here you can practically never buy a product and not find instructions in English and atleast 5 other languages.
In Sweden, almost all products - from groceries to computers - have instructions etc in Swedish, Norweigan, Danish, Finish, English, German, French and Spanish, and sometimes even in Russian or Hebrew or some other language.
I don't think haveing several languages on a product is any problem. On the contrary, I find it to be very useful when trying to learn other languages than your own native language, and you might even pick up a line or two even when not trying to learn anything. (Though I would appreciate if the Swedish commercial was in Swedish, not 50% in Swedish and 50% in English)
However, even if we have instructions, TV programs, newspapers etc in other languages, we still have an official language that everyone should learn (this is not an recuirement though, unfortunately). An official language (or two for that matter) is (are) crucial for communicating and understanding of each other. I am for English as the official language in the US, since this was the language that was "agreed uopn" in a way back when the country was made. Sure, Spanish is a big language in the US these days, but that is because so many people from Spanish speaking countries have immigrated to there. It doesn't make it right to claim the Spanish language the language. (But respect is always a nice thing from both sides)
My grandmother immigrated from Finland in the 1920s to Sweden. She came from the Swedish speaking population in Finland (Sweden "owned" Finland for 600 years before loosing "it" to Russia in early 19th century, and Finland was then declared independent in early 20th century), but spoke Finish fluently. (Though she didn't speak it at all in Sweden for fear of being ridiculed- she was very uncertain of herself, but when she came to Finland to speak to our relatives, she spoke it fluently without a problem.)
In Finland, they speak both Finish and Swedish without it being a problem. Both languages are official and there are no "clashes". So, to me, Finland is a great example of a western country that peacefully handles two official languages. So it can be done.
To clarify my opinion: two official languages can work and does work in many countries. But, in Sweden and many other countries, we still see English as the "official" language in the US, eventhough we know about the rising Spanish speaking population.
Make English the official language, but still recognize the Spanish speaking population.
When it comes to speaking other languages when visiting another country:
I have yet to meet an English speaking person who visits another, non-English country who has learnt the basics or some words of the local language. Us being visited by English speaking people are ALWAYS required to speak English, otherwise we have to listen to "not so polite words" when we don't.
Basically, English is seen as the language to speak when two people doesn't share the same language. That's why the rest of the word has to learn it in school. But, unfortunately, some people have problems learning other languages. Most of my classmates are GREAT in math, but we are few who learn languages easily. It's a matter of interest and biology/psychology.
You didn't hurt my feelings. I'm sorry you've had trouble, and I agree that a common language is key to communication. I also believe in personal freedom, though. There are limits as to how far we can go to make sure everyone speaks English. Can we make sure all gov't communication is in English? Sure. That doesn't mean people will learn it, though. They can always get help with the gov't stuff and get by just fine. We can't change what language people speak in their homes and businesses, nor should we try to.
thanks for the response...i think macmeal is right, there seems to be alot of frustration on this forum, and with due cause for most...please, do not let anything i say offend you, and if it does, i am truly sorry, but when i see a blue cat, i say what i see...
in one of your posts you mentioned the fact of the mexicans who were here when america purchased the land, did not learn the language, because the world changed around them ... so why should they change? they were here first...
so the world changes, and people change with it...we adapt...
if i go to mexico, i will learn as much of the language as i can, learn it's currency, whatever i should know to communicate to them in their country...all i'd like to see is them try when they choose to live here..
living in new mexico, there are so many mexican nationals and illegal immigrants from mexico that even the hispanic americans here are feeling outnumbered, and getting tired of the influx and the injustice of our government protecting it's borders especially after a 9-11 world..i did not know when i moved here 14 years ago that the american born hispanics even have a hard time communicating with the mexican born hispanics, not because they do not speak spanish themselves, but because it is a different dialect..
they are angry they cannot communicate, and insist the immigrants , all of them, not just mexicans, should learn english well enough to communicate, though again, they speak spanish themselves in their homes, and with the elderly, and when the need arises no-one has stolen their soul or their culture... and no-one is angry about them doing it...i think they're great for being able to do it, being bi-lingual
how many nationalities have immigrated from how many countries to america, and how many are failing to learn to communicate in english? only one, the one that is catered too, because there is fear in the numbers...god forbid another american -mexican war...they want their land back...it is no lie.
i would like to touch on a differnet nation, but the same tpic for a moment... alot of people forget about the indians who were here, when the spaniards came, the spaniards weren't merciless when they discovered the southwest, and in fact forced the indians not only to learn spanish so they could communicate, but also forced them to become catholic...this was achieved by sometimes cruel and unusual torture, slavery and death.
some indian tribes even resorted to suicide sacrificing almost half their entire tribes to avoid the occupation of their land.(jemez pueblo of new mexico)
then came the english, who also attempted to "civilize" the indian tribes, and in earlier days weren't very nice to the indians, either, lacing the blankets the indian traded for land with smallpox, giving them rotten beans to eat ...and we can never forget the trail of tears walk to the reservations where thousnads upon thousands of indians died from exposure exhaustion etc.....
some indian tribes did not resist the immigrations and allowed the english to co-exist with them, learning the english language as a means to communicate...and succeed. and many have succeeded, even speaking english.
the choctaw nation had 16 million acres of land, yet over the years, has sold land to the government ,they still feel it was the right thing to do..
some was sold for the betterment of the country, and some for the betterment of the tribe...they learned english when the english came here, and spanish when the spaniards came , yet were able to maintain their culture somehow...and most speak their native language at home, and in work, and in public, but they can communicate in english because they want to, and believe it to be the officail language, even if ther eis no law saying what it is, few, see anything wrong with speaking english or spanish but still want english as a common language for america.
they would die, and i would too, if someone forced me to give up my native tongue...
but that isn't the issue, no-one has ever said that an immigrant to america has to forget or never use his language again, what was asked on the original post was if you thought it was rude not to at least attempt to learn the english language for communication with americans while you choose to live here.
i have never once in any of my posts ever suggested that anyone should be forced to speak english only, in fact, what i have said, is one common language could help in more ways than one.
i do appreciate your opinion, because i agree no-one should be forced to lose their culture, but there is nothing wrong with a nation having one common language, i think it could serve the world alot better, if not just our own country..i still stand behind my opinion and respect you for voicing your own , after all, isn't this what this country is all about?
would you at least attempt to learn enough to communicate if you were to visit a foreign nation? and if you decided to move there and set up roots, would you learn the language or expect the country you immigrated to to learn your language? like so many mexican immigarnts are demanding we do.
my point is , yes we are a melting pot, give us your tired your poor, but as with everything that is thrown into a melting pot, it melds together, and becomes one...one common language would give rise to understanding...
and still, i stand behind my opinion
Of course it would be nice to pick up another language, but am reminded that some sounds are just not heard by people that have been raised elswhere. Japanese people cannot hear 'r' I think from memory and English people do not hear certain Spanish sounds, no doubt this is so for lots of races and sounds from other cultures.
Anybody got any other identifiable sounds that cannot be heard by foriegners?
Of course it would be nice to pick up another language, but am reminded that some sounds are just not heard by people that have been raised elswhere. Japanese people cannot hear 'r' I think from memory and English people do not hear certain Spanish sounds, no doubt this is so for lots of races and sounds from other cultures.
Anybody got any other identifiable sounds that cannot be heard by foriegners?
Well, Famenity, from your point of view, George Bush is a foreigner. And he can't say "Nuclear". And we have a governor here in my state who was born in Austria, and he can't say "California"---
Seriously, you're right- many Japanese speakers never learn the English "r" sound---A window pane will always be made from "grass"-. The Chinese, likewise, have some difficulty with "L"- almost the opposite--in their case, a lawn is where you grow "glass".
Filipinos (Tagalog) frequently interpose the "F" and the "P", for some reason---(Many a US Navy "cheap petty officer" knows this, as he looks for a bench to sit on in the "fark")-
FEW languages, I'm told, have the English "a" sound like in "back" or "smack"--most "foreigners" never learn not to say "bock" or "smock"...Don't know how widespread this is, though.
Scandinavians are known to be unable to say "J",(it becomes "y") the opposite of some Spanish speakers, for whom "y" becomes "J". Also Mexicans have difficulty with "Ch"--it's pronounced "Sh", and the opposite is true, too-"Sh" becomes "Ch".
And Argentines even have difficulty with the Spanish "ll" (pronounced like the English "y", as in "llave" (key)---the Argentines say the English "J" sound -- "llave" becomes "jave". The Spanish in Argentina is heavily accented by Italian.
Probably lots more I don't know about.
PS There's very funny ethnic joke regarding the "Y" and "J" sounds, much enjoyed by many Mexican-Americans. Probably would cause a "furor" on this forum, so better not send it. But take my word, it's quite innocent.
I live in the United States where english is pretty much the official language of the country. Though I wouldn't call it the "native tongue", nevertheless, it is the official language. There has been great concerns and dispute about the ever growing spanish population in this country and though I myself love the whole diversity thing, many people are having a problem with having put up with non-english speaking people refusing to learn the language of the majority and for those who speaks very good english, they choose to speak spanish in your presence; whether it be in the work place or in friendly circle. Do you believe that the government should require that all who resides here should learn to speak english? Do you believe that the government is right for making everything bilingual?
Want to come to the USA? Want to have a job here? Want to take part in our traditions? Want to be an American? Want to raise a family here? Want to be welcome here? Then learn the language WE speak here. Otherwise, keep on moving.
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