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if you knew where i live, you would know that the idea that anyone here would not speak english if she were able out of apprehension that someone else might laugh at her accent is pretty preposterous: half the people in this city speak with an accent of one kind or another, including many very intelligent and highly educated folks! an accent, by itself, is indicative of nothing except that english is not the speaker's first language, and there is no one here who doesn't realize that. even native english-speaking kids do not laugh at their classmates who struggle with english, because it's nothing unusual.
more to the point, however, i am speaking of people who, by their own accounts, at least, "have" to come here just to feed their families. it seems to me that they shouldn't consider themselves to have a choice about learning english, no matter how difficult a language it might be to master. embarrassed and tongue-tied or not, speaking english is going to be a basic requirement for any kind of meaningful rise in their economic status. the fact that many do not even try to learn says to me that they aren't here to work hard and to elevate themselves to the fullest extent possible, but to take advantage of all the perceived "freebies" our federal and state governments make available to them-- benefits that, for the most part, would NOT be available to them if they learned english and got a "decent-paying" jobs, instead of condemning themselves and most probably their children to lives of poverty by not taking that important first step up: learning the language!
many of these people have family members who already speak english, and could help them learn. many have young children who are learning to read and write in english at school, and they could pick up the fundamentals just by doing the workbook exercises along with their kids, or after they've gone to bed. they could spend a couple nights a week in adult school, where ESL classes are practically the only thing offered these days. they could learn adult-level vocabulary by watching television in english, instead of all that spanish language programming flooding the airwaves, and contributing to its viewers' ignorance of the english language.
there's really no excuse. even those who arrive illiterate in their native tongue can learn to speak english, if they are so inclined. far too many are not, and that is partly our fault for making it too damn easy for them to get along in society without knowing the native language.
I won't argue with you--there's good reasoning behind much of what you say. Most of my posts don't offer solutions---I simply point out our inconsistencies and suggest the reasons, as I see them, for some of our frustrating problems. Many of my posts run along the lines of "If you're going to do 'this'--and 'this'---then don't be surprised if the result is 'this' "....
There is no doubt at all that the entire illegal immigration situation, AND the language issue, are what they are, largely due to the fact that we, as a country, have chosen to create a tolerant, open, and liberal society. This much is beyond argument. North Korea, Cuba, and Iran pay little attention to the wishes of their "immigrant" populations. The few who manage to "get in" ceratinly have no special "rights", to say the least.
Only in the tolerant West do we embrace the idea of special rights for immigrants, sometimes even beyond the rights of our own citizens---and now, our tolerance has even expanded to include ILLEGAL immigrants, as well. Even the word "illegal" is looked at as a "divisive" term. In fact, many of us actually discourage assimilation, feeling this makes us a very "multicultural" nation.
This is the reality of our society today. My observations in the post above were only addressing the concerns of a few individuals I've met. I won't attempt to explain the overall situation--because that would take volumes (and probably provoke a huge argument).....
GREAT POINT Miami Rob--If the Decider would only start verbalizing better so we could internalize his communicatory messages, we'd all be able to facilitate a realistic ideal of just what in the Hell he was dictating to our ears so that we could process the information being supplied to us....or somethin' like that...
Macmeal - You are hilarious! I SO enjoy reading your posts!! Thanks so much for the giggle. I needed it.
Just how deliberately rude and disrespectful is it to refuse to engage in the native language of a country? Here's observances from today's (9.13.07) Los Angeles Times, (italisized):
"...(Ms.) Quezada and her husband are fluent in English, but don't want their four sons to lose their Spanish nor to sound like "gringos" when they speak. "When they say something in English, we act like we don't understand," Quezada said, "We say 'no entiendo.'"
She doesn't want her own American-born children to speak English like "gringos," which is to say like their fellow Americans, no matter what regional accent. Insofar as there inevitably will be apologists on this forum who wholeheartedly approve of American-born children having difficulty in English for the rest of their lives and its attendant limitation of opportunities (and no doubt cite the one individual in L.A. that is the exception to the rule as opposed to the overpowering majority who do not), let me offer two of the same article's counterpoints:
"Isolation is problematic," said Lane Ryo Hirabayashi, chairman of UCLA's Department of Asian American Studies. "While it reflects strong ties to the home country, it also suggests that folks in this situation are inherently more cut off form society, and less able to participate and take advantage of opportunities here."
"The downside is that many who speak solely other languages at home are not proficient in English- making them more likely to earn low wages and live in poor neighborhoods." said Randy Capps, senior research associate at the Urban Institute, a think tank based in Washington D.C.
No one argues that studying or fluency in assorted languages in the U.S. is anything but useful and good. But the U.S. retains a unique demographic of populations from all over the globe, immigrants who would never have been able to communicate with one another, much less the rest of America of the last 250 years, had they not learned English. Here in L.A., signage is NOT in two languages; far more often than not, it is in the foreign language only.
Ms. Quezada wants her children to speak like non-Americans for the rest of their lives, and to have a smaller window of opportunity than any other children born from any other nationality here. What a waste! They could have been unaccented actual bilinguals. Not only is this deliberately disrespectful to our nation, it is a sad scenario for her own children's future. Very, very sad.
I think many people are missing the point here. The future we're looking at here involves a huge "leveling" process. In the coming years, the "disadvantage" of not speaking English will become less and less important, because, in relative terms , the ADVANTAGE of speaking English will become less and less a "given".
In our multi-national, NAU-run, NAFTA-aligned future, borders will become obsolete. All "labor" will become more and more interchangeable. Eventually, there will probably be nothing like our present concept of the "middle class". No one, regardless of his ethnicity, will have the "luxury" of being monolingual. Yet at the same time, no one will be indispensible, either. And wages will be determined by what the market will bear.
All this is working toward a society in which English is "OK", of course---but its actual "advantage" is becoming, by simple default, less and less of a given, simply because it will lose its relative status.
Keep up the English lessons, but keep your "opciones" open......
PS*****no. I don't necessarily LIKE this----and I'm not "some kind of commie"----and no, I don't particularly want to "get my A$$ kicked"----or even "Live in Mexico, where I belong"-----I'm just telling it as I see it....
Read this explanation of living with the Mexicans, worth a read.
The Plain Truth about Living in Mexico (http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Plain-Truth-about-Living-in-Mexico&id=289280 - broken link)
Thanks Famenity---read your article from start to finish. I wish everyone could do so. It agrees perfectly with my own concepts and experiences w/ Mexican culture. There is no doubt that we "norteamericanos" do have a very serious shortage of public decorum, and like the author, I find the Mexicans at home to be almost universally polite and hospitable to a degree not seen here in the States for a generation or more. And I've also marveled at their patience with the gringos in so many ways. It hasn't always been deserved.
And yet, from my perspective living in Los Angeles with its 48% foreign born population, I can't see how anyone would prefer the non-American mindset to prevail in the United States. Here in L.A., foreign nationals spit on me (middle-aged Causasian female) while I walk by on the sidewalk, and turn up their noses at my speaking another foreign language than Spanish. When they do speak English, it's to rail against the entirety of America and its citizens, how much they despise everything here but those wages (paid under the table.)
Your brave new world of all foreign nationals here is mysoginist, xenophobic, cruel, and staunchly anti-the United States and its present citizens, whether born or naturalized. If Ms. Quezada moved back to Mexico, all of her dreams for her family would come true.
I do not let slide people in my presence using the perjorative "gringo" or "anglo" in my presence in reference to me or other Americans, any more than I would let slide other perjoratives to other nationalities or epidermis cladistics around me. I politely remind them it's considered rude in these United States, and I would not be so rude to them. Do unto others, etc. You'd be surprised how often here in Los Angeles this request is met with "ch---a gringa." There's your brave new world incubating in Los Angeles.
And yet, from my perspective living in Los Angeles with its 48% foreign born population, I can't see how anyone would prefer the non-American mindset to prevail in the United States. Here in L.A., foreign nationals spit on me (middle-aged Causasian female) while I walk by on the sidewalk, and turn up their noses at my speaking another foreign language than Spanish. When they do speak English, it's to rail against the entirety of America and its citizens, how much they despise everything here but those wages (paid under the table.)
Your brave new world of all foreign nationals here is mysoginist, xenophobic, cruel, and staunchly anti-the United States and its present citizens, whether born or naturalized. If Ms. Quezada moved back to Mexico, all of her dreams for her family would come true.
Yet I was told I was the only female they yell at and disrespect!hhhmmmm
When I respond in German they usually just yell at me!!!
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Thanks so much for the giggle. I needed it.
