Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
No fears. By the first generation... everybody learns English. In Europe and most other parts of the world they speak multiple languages. They all seem to get by just fine.
The U.S. is a bit behind the curve with having different languages spoken and some people are gripping a bit. I think it is great.
I really have to wonder where you live because you keep posting all kinds of myths and fables about illegals and the immigration.
In LA that have had to print voter ballots into 29 different languages and that would be because so many REFUSE to learn English, first or third generation. I know this for an absolute fact because of family living there. I also have family living in New Mexico and some Mexican families have lived in that stat6e for well into hundreds of years. Some of those same families REFUSE to speak or learn English and why should they? They are catered to in Spanish. I can show you lots of enclaves of Spanish speaking people and they have no desire to learn English and they will tell you as much. hey have flately told me and members of my family that they know that they don't ever have to learn to speak English because our country caters to them in Spanish. They are right of course and then we have people pass around the out and out fables and myths that they learn how to speak English. The fact is that if they did then Spanish language television and radio would not need to be.
I am also sick and tired of people who keep saying that we are behind the curve when it comes to people speaking other languahes. In the first place plenty people speak different languages in this country. They don't here because we speak English, in case you haven't nhoticed. Another thing, the ones doing the most bit**ing about us supposedly being so monolingual are themselves monolingual. I am speaking about the Spanish speaking people who rant and rave about us when they in fact, can barely speak Spanish themselves and certainly don't and can't speak other languages themselves.
I really have to wonder where you live because you keep posting all kinds of myths and fables about illegals and the immigration.
In LA that have had to print voter ballots into 29 different languages and that would be because so many REFUSE to learn English, first or third generation. I know this for an absolute fact because of family living there. I also have family living in New Mexico and some Mexican families have lived in that stat6e for well into hundreds of years. Some of those same families REFUSE to speak or learn English and why should they? They are catered to in Spanish. I can show you lots of enclaves of Spanish speaking people and they have no desire to learn English and they will tell you as much. hey have flately told me and members of my family that they know that they don't ever have to learn to speak English because our country caters to them in Spanish. They are right of course and then we have people pass around the out and out fables and myths that they learn how to speak English. The fact is that if they did then Spanish language television and radio would not need to be.
I am also sick and tired of people who keep saying that we are behind the curve when it comes to people speaking other languahes. In the first place plenty people speak different languages in this country. They don't here because we speak English, in case you haven't nhoticed. Another thing, the ones doing the most bit**ing about us supposedly being so monolingual are themselves monolingual. I am speaking about the Spanish speaking people who rant and rave about us when they in fact, can barely speak Spanish themselves and certainly don't and can't speak other languages themselves.
LOL. Nice rants. I can back up my "myths and fables" with lots of real data. Can you back up your quaint personal correspondence and observations with anything? Or should we just go by your "scientific observations".
Yes, I can back up everything I say but you have not backed anything you said up. Please don't post cites to known pro-illegal places either because most of mus have seen them ad nauseam.
I tell you what. You go ahead and ask everyone what they believe and I will guarnatee that more believe what all I have posted than the fables you have posted. I know you will not aks though because you want people to believe that you know what you are talking about, when in fact all you know is what you get off the pro-illegal web sites. Most of us that post in here know from actual experience and the web sites that tell the truth. Go ahead and ask. I dare you.
Well here is one article for you, based on actual studies and research. I don't particularly care what some "people" may think at all, because it really doesn't matter, now does it?
But while nearly 50 million Americans spoke a language other than English at home in 2004—nearly one-fifth of all U.S. residents age 5 or older—what the debate misses is that today's immigrants are on average making the transition to speaking English more quickly than immigrants at any other time in U.S. history.
"Those who arrive by age 12 or 13 make a quick transition to English—that's the dividing line," says Rumbaut, who has studied language assimilation in the United States for three decades. "It's a piece of cake for those who arrive much earlier on, because of the dominance of English in every medium in the United States, from video to the Internet. English wins."
In addition, Spanish isn't the only fast-growing language in the United States: Chinese, Tagalog, Vietnamese, and Arabic have also seen impressive gains since 1990, while European languages that were once common in the United States (such as French, German, and Polish) are becoming less prevalent. But Rumbaut says that the children of new immigrants speaking other languages will almost invariably turn to English as their primary tongue.
"The fate of all these languages is to succumb to rapid assimilation," says Rumbaut. "The idea that the United States will devolve into riots and become Quebec unless everybody speaks English and English only, is absolutely not true. Demography will take care of the problem itself—it is not really a policy issue."
More Than One-Half of All Immigrants 'Very Proficient' in English
The number of Americans speaking a language at home other than English has more than doubled since 1980, reflecting the influx of millions of immigrants to the United States in recent decades, particularly Spanish-speaking immigrants from Latin America. About 31 million U.S. residents speak Spanish at home—easily making it the second-most spoken language in the country.
The idea that speaking languages other than English hinders full participation of U.S. citizenship has substantial public support. For example, in a Los Angeles Times poll of California voters after their 1998 vote to end bilingual education in that state, three out of every four agreed with the statement: "If you live in America, you need to speak English."4 A majority of Hispanics share this attitude, according to a new Pew Hispanic Center survey: 57 percent of Hispanics say that "immigrants have to speak English to say that they are part of American society."5
But a majority of those who speak languages other than English at home report themselves already very proficient in English, according to 2004 data from the American Community Survey (see Table 1). Fewer than 50 percent of people who use Spanish or another non-English language at home speak English less than "very well"—including 48 percent of those who speak Spanish. Almost 70 percent of U.S. adults ages 18 to 64 who spoke Spanish in the home said they also spoke English either "well" or "very well."6Print In the News: Speaking English in the United States - Population Reference Bureau
I live in the United States where english is pretty much the official language of the country. Though I wouldn't call it the "native tongue", nevertheless, it is the official language. There has been great concerns and dispute about the ever growing spanish population in this country and though I myself love the whole diversity thing, many people are having a problem with having put up with non-english speaking people refusing to learn the language of the majority and for those who speaks very good english, they choose to speak spanish in your presence; whether it be in the work place or in friendly circle. Do you believe that the government should require that all who resides here should learn to speak english? Do you believe that the government is right for making everything bilingual?
You have a couple of different thoughts here...
I don't believe anything can be done to force people who speak English as a second language to actually speak English when they are "in a friendly circle." They can speak whatever language they want to. I would never want the government to legislate on something like that.
When you are at work, I believe the courts have ruled on whether or not they must speak English but I can't remember what the ruling was.
I've worked around Swiss Germans who spoke German at work (even though they spoke English too) and I've worked with Filipinos who spoke Tagalog at work (even though they spoke English too). When they wanted to speak to me, they had to speak in English because I don't understand German or Tagalog.
Optimism is always good---but don't know if the situation is really that simple. By the first generation, everyone USED TO learn English--they were practically compelled to do so by a monolingual government, and some pretty serious peer pressure. These are both being "dismantled" as we speak. Does everyone in Canada speak English?---does everyone in Belgium speak Flemish?--how about Switzerland?....and I'm not sure I'll accept that they all uniformly "get by just fine"---there's HUGE room for interpretation there.
Obviously, the US is "behind the curve" in multi-lingualism-- but it may also be "behind the curve" in inter-ethnic squabbling, as well. Lots of room for taking a cautious approach, it seems to me......
I'll take it for granted that you know the Swiss speak three languages macmeal dependant on what part they originate from and I've never heard anyone complain about that in Switzerland. They always made (from the eigteenth century at least) very good watches in the cantons or anywhere else for that matter.
I also have family living in New Mexico and some Mexican families have lived in that stat6e for well into hundreds of years. Some of those same families REFUSE to speak or learn English and why should they? They are catered to in Spanish.
Well, here's the thing. New Mexico has only been a state since 1912, and has only been a part of US holdings since 1848 (most of it) and 1853 (Southern NM in the Gadsen Purchase). Therefore, if there are families there who have been there for hundreds of years.... is it really for us to tell them to learn English? I mean... clearly the place has changed around them, and Spanish has been the language of the place for longer than English has. Also, Spanish has basically been accepted in NM for years and years.
Personally, for most parts of the country, I see no problem with 99% of government activity being conducted exclusively in English. Some documents intended to inform the public of health risks or some other form of danger are a clear exception. I'm a toss-up on voting, but literacy tests were tossed out after the Jim Crow era, so it'd be a tough sell to get those all in English.
As for personal conversations, any language suits me just fine. As for private businesses, any language they choose is fine by me. A restaurant shouldn't be required to have a Spanish menu (or an English menu, for that matter). The market will sort that out.
I also think we should all learn more languages. Most of all, I wish more Americans were more fluent in English. We use very few words and use them poorly. Language is a spectacular gift, and we squander it.
I also think we should all learn more languages. Most of all, I wish more Americans were more fluent in English. We use very few words and use them poorly. Language is a spectacular gift, and we squander it.
Ain't that the truth!
Recently I was looking through the newspaper and I found a job that I would be well-qualified to do. Unfortunately, part of it involved purchasing overseas and they wanted someone with Korean, Chinese and English. I only know English and a smattering of French and Spanish. I'd like to learn Mandarin Chinese because I believe it is going to be a most useful language in the future, but I never thought about learning Korean until I read that advertisement.
I live in Los Angeles and there are a lot of Koreans who live near me. If I wanted to, I could learn Korean around here and I could get a lot of practical experience speaking it with people who are fluent. I would actually be able to use the language because I regularly shop in a Korean market and I'll bet I'd be able to find jobs in other places in the USA where a knowledge of Korean would be an asset.
I'll take it for granted that you know the Swiss speak three languages macmeal dependant on what part they originate from and I've never heard anyone complain about that in Switzerland. They always made (from the eigteenth century at least) very good watches in the cantons or anywhere else for that matter.
Yes, thanks, that was my point-the Swiss do indeed speak three languages (seems I also heard of a fourth--- "Romansch", spoken by a tiny fragment--don't know if I'm getting my facts confused).
But my point was that these "tidy", well-run, tightly-regulated places are not necessarily comparable with our own somewhat disorganized, multi-racial USA, and that our efforts here should tend in the direction of all the assimilation possible from our immigrants, not an effort to glorify and emphasize our differences.
As you probably know, even super-stable Canada does suffer from some friction due to its bilingualism. (even up to and including a rather nasty separatism movement there some years ago--got a little violent, even.) Canadian bilingualism has been a fact of life there from the earliest days--but I wonder, given the choice, and knowing what they know, would Canada opt TODAY to embrace bilingualism? For that is the situation facing the US right now-- a move toward two (and probably later, 3 or 4) languages, as a matter of choice. While some may see this as "exciting", I can foresee huge problems as each linguistic group jostles for its share of our "rights" and its "piece of the pie". This, as I see it, is the bitter fruit of true multiculturalism. As a laboratory theory, it's fine. In day-to-day living, though, I think it would be a disaster. We are making decisions now which will determine our future from now on---this stuff just isn't "reversible"---and I find myself very "leery" of our direction here.
The best to you, Famenity---thanks for your post...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
