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Well, first, I will have to respectfully disagree with you about the need for workers here, especially lower skilled, lowered paid workers. I’ve seen a lot in the press and had my own (clearly more limited) observations at restaurants, retails shops, airports, etc. of worker shortages. So, I think there is most definitely a legitimate immediate need to be filled.
Second, I think your point about these folks putting stresses on existing infrastructure is fair….I can see that as a legitimate burden on schools, hospitals, etc. I think where we differ is that I see those issues as shorter term burdens, that while real, will ultimately be offset by a larger and more educated/productive workforce. I know my great grand parents came to the US with no education and no knowledge of English. I know 3 of them took jobs in laundries, one worked as a cobbler (don’t see that job much any more, huh?) Fast forward three generations and there are 14 great grand children all with college degrees or better, all English speaking, and all gainfully employed paying income, property, OASDI, etc. taxes. I’m not suggesting that this happens in every situation, but in general, progressive generations do better than the earlier generations. Anyway, I see people as a source of growth and wealth creation…but it does take some time to see those results.
Finally, I just wanted to restate that I did not accuse you specifically of xenophobia. You’ve given me no reason to think you are guilty of such. My statement was broader, and I think based on a lot of the hateful rhetoric levied against illegal immigrants, the issue is clearly more based on the “immigrant” than the “illegal”.
Anyway, while I think we need (and should) to allow more people to enter the country and you disagree, we both agree that we should be better stewards as far as border control.
What many of those low skilled jobs need to do is to just fold up and die. We don't need a burger joint on every corner. If our American youth and those wanting to supplement their incomes can't be found to fill them then we don't need them. They don't pay a liveable wage for an "immigrant" to support themselves and guess who is going to have to supplement their social and living needs? We should wait for generations in case their descendants might be able to make something of themselves? Where is the money going to come from while we wait for decades?
We don't have the same needs as when your great grandparents came here. We are a highly technological nation now. Also, there was no safety net such as welfare when they were around. We have overcrowded conditions today which places added stress on our natural and social resources, very little affordable housing, water shortages and the list goes on and on. We need to reduce our population growth not increase it.
Hateful rhetoric against illegal aliens? So telling the truth about the negative impact they have on our society is "hateful rhetoric"? How so?
You must not have been reading any of the recent polling. Only 21% of hispanics approve of the Democrat party. Do you think they'll vote for a party they don't approve of? That would be utter nonsense.
Many Dems are in denial of the recent polling of blacks and hispanics. No worrries, we are less than 4 months away from finding out who is right...you or me. Let's revisit this on Nov 9th...okay?
You initially said they didn't approve of Biden, not the whole Democrat party. How about you post some links to your claims. As I said, they may not agree with Biden on some issues but they do on some others. Get Biden out of there and you will see Hispanics voting for the Democrats in nearly the same numbers prior to Biden.
Well, first, I will have to respectfully disagree with you about the need for workers here, especially lower skilled, lowered paid workers. I’ve seen a lot in the press and had my own (clearly more limited) observations at restaurants, retails shops, airports, etc. of worker shortages. So, I think there is most definitely a legitimate immediate need to be filled.
Second, I think your point about these folks putting stresses on existing infrastructure is fair….I can see that as a legitimate burden on schools, hospitals, etc. I think where we differ is that I see those issues as shorter term burdens, that while real, will ultimately be offset by a larger and more educated/productive workforce. I know my great grand parents came to the US with no education and no knowledge of English. I know 3 of them took jobs in laundries, one worked as a cobbler (don’t see that job much any more, huh?) Fast forward three generations and there are 14 great grand children all with college degrees or better, all English speaking, and all gainfully employed paying income, property, OASDI, etc. taxes. I’m not suggesting that this happens in every situation, but in general, progressive generations do better than the earlier generations. Anyway, I see people as a source of growth and wealth creation…but it does take some time to see those results.
Finally, I just wanted to restate that I did not accuse you specifically of xenophobia. You’ve given me no reason to think you are guilty of such. My statement was broader, and I think based on a lot of the hateful rhetoric levied against illegal immigrants, the issue is clearly more based on the “immigrant” than the “illegal”.
Anyway, while I think we need (and should) to allow more people to enter the country and you disagree, we both agree that we should be better stewards as far as border control.
Per the bolded --- You can not compare immigration from 100 years back to what is happening now. Back then, many American citizens, as well as new immigrants, were illiterate. As the country was an agrarian and industrial society, illiterate people could find steady work. We also had lots of room to expand. The immigrants who arrived back then knew that they had to learn English. Thus, many enrolled in night school. I hold my maternal grandparents up as an example. They came here legally in 1921. Both got jobs and both enrolled in night school and didn't stop going until they were fluent in English. As soon as they could, they became US citizens. All their children were born in the US and my grandparents made sure that in addition to teaching them their native language, they made sure to also speak to them in English. There was no welfare back then so it was either sink or swim for all.
The so-called "migrants" in the present rarely make an effort to learn English. Their anchor babies start school not knowing a word of English plus the Spanish the speak is atrocious. For example, they arrive at school not knowing their colors. IOW, they can't tell red from blue. Teachers will tell you that these kids never fully catch up. Also, their parents encourage the kids to drop out of HS and go to work. Some parents push their teen daughters to get pregnant in the mistaken belief that once the baby is born the whole family is safe from deportation. Long story short---Illegal aliens are parasites who take far,far more than they give.
You do need to be concerned about strains on the infrastructure instead of being flippant about it. Are you aware of what is currently going on in the Southwest? Do you know about the severe water shortages? More people means adding more infrastructure. Many jurisdictions are so short on money that they have to decide to either upgrade existing infrastructure or expanding it.
I think it’s probably best if you and I just agree to disagree. You have very strong feelings on this issue and it’s pretty clear that my opinions aren’t carrying too much weight in our discussions. I’ll just leave it with a restatement that I do share your concern that we should focus more attention on border security….like you, I’d prefer to do a more comprehensive job of vetting those who enter the country. It will be interesting to see where the US ends up on immigration policy in 10 or 20 years. I hope we are both around to see what happens!
You need to get away from your opinions and concentrate on the facts. Feelings and opinions don't count only facts do and that's where you go wrong. Everything I have posted are the facts but you choose to ignore them as it appears you are letting your emotions rule you rather than common sense and the truth.
That is a good discussion. It doesn't have a single conclusion. One survey states:
Quote:
The Brennan Center for Justice, a law and policy institute that describes itself as progressive, concluded in a 2017 analysis, "It is not surprising that noncitizen voting is rare. In addition to massive fines and time in prison, a noncitizen would risk deportation or derailing their naturalization process by voting.
Another reason for voter ID and enforcing I-9, Employment Eligibility Verification.
It's a shame what i see at work. Hundreds of illegals entering every day. Singles , families, future criminals allowed to enter and go to various cities in the U.S. only need to name a contact person. Near nobody is detianed or returned to Mexico. I can't take pictures here , but it's a shame to see lines of illegals being admitted and transferred in by buses.
How many are being sent to Coastal South Carolina to assist with all the home construction there?
How many are being sent to Coastal South Carolina to assist with all the home construction there?
It's a well known fact that illegal aliens have flooded the construction industry and drove down the wages there. Even if an American is willing to work for half of the wages they used to get they won't get hired unless they are a Spanish speaking Latino.
What do you mean, assisting Border Patrol? Are they aware of your help?
Eagle Pass, Texas / Seco Mines, Texas......ICE is assisting BP. My hotel is full of State Police from Texas, ICE, Border Patrol , and the National Guard. I work for ICE. We have been mandated to come to the Southern Border to assist with this mess and chaos.
How many are being sent to Coastal South Carolina to assist with all the home construction there?
Not many Sir, we here can see where every illegal is going. They must name a contact person. We know what cities most are headed to and it's not South Carolina.
Eagle Pass, Texas / Seco Mines, Texas......ICE is assisting BP. My hotel is full of State Police from Texas, ICE, Border Patrol , and the National Guard. I work for ICE. We have been mandated to come to the Southern Border to assist with this mess and chaos.
Thank you for your service!
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