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Russia meddled. We knew that. And we knew that long before the end of the 2016 election campaign. We didn't need Mueller to tell us that. We needed to act. And the Obama administration chose not to act.
So what was Mueller investigating, exactly, after the campaign was over? Trump's collusion with Russia? That's what we were told. But what evidence was there of that when the investigation started? None. What evidence is there now? None.
Democrats wanted an investigation as they had a suspicion he had colluded, or they felt that they could find something on him during an in-depth investigation, depending on how cynical you are. Regardless, we were told this was important, to find the truth.
Here, with J.B., we have much more than a suspicion, or a drunken comment by a low level aide to use the official statement of probable cause. We have him on tape making racist comments, followed by actual people who are saying they were victims of discrimination during his campaign. And he wants to be governor of a diverse state, and to make important decisions affecting all of the people in it. So why isn't this being investigated? I don't know. And I don't understand.
That's my point.
What’s the criminal charge associated with the racial discrimination lawsuit filed against Pritzker (other than a multi-million dollar payout)? It’s absolutely wrong and I’m not defending it if true but I’m trying to understand what he should be charged with if he was found to have racially discriminated against campaign staffers? How exactly is this situation related to the criminal charges resulting from the Mueller investigation?
What’s the criminal charge associated with the racial discrimination lawsuit filed against Pritzker (other than a multi-million dollar payout)? It’s absolutely wrong and I’m not defending it if true but I’m trying to understand what he should be charged with if he was found to have racially discriminated against campaign staffers? How exactly is this situation related to the criminal charges resulting from the Mueller investigation?
Racial discrimination by the campaign would violate Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. It's not a crime but it is a violation of the law.
With respect to Kavanaugh, the aim of the Senate hearing and subsequent FBI investigation was not to bring criminal charges against him for sexual assault. Rather, the purpose was to determine the veracity of the allegations and his rebuttal and determine his fitness to serve on the bench. I don't see how that should be any different here.
BRU, not trying to pick on you, but there's a lot of misleading info here. I agree to an extent but you're leaving out plenty of info.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRU67
Russia meddled. We knew that. And we knew that long before the end of the 2016 election campaign. We didn't need Mueller to tell us that. We needed to act. And the Obama administration chose not to act.
The investigation started in July 2016 before the dossier existed. The Obama administration should have acted more seriously, I agree. As one of your links states, though, McConnell would not make a bipartisan statement about election interference. I understand why the Obama administration would not make a statement alone to avoid politicizing the issue. 17 varying intelligence agencies did all confirm though there was interference, so like you said, we knew it was happening. It doesn't appear that multiple judges gave out a FISA warrant (every 90 days for several quarters) based simply on one dude's 35 pages of scribble. Some of the specifics were not known at that time and have been discovered during the investigation, such as the social media disinformation campaign on Facebook and Russian bots on Twitter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRU67
So what was Mueller investigating, exactly, after the campaign was over? Trump's collusion with Russia? That's what we were told. But what evidence was there of that when the investigation started? None. What evidence is there now? None.
Multiple members of his campaign were supposedly working with foreign governments. Trump himself was not supposedly the basis of the investigation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRU67
Democrats wanted an investigation as they had a suspicion he had colluded, or they felt that they could find something on him during an in-depth investigation, depending on how cynical you are. Regardless, we were told this was important, to find the truth.
The findings are supposed to tell us how specifically various Russian entities interfered in the election and what safeguards can be put in place. If criminal acts occurred, those charges will also be made by the special counsel. The Democrats didn't start the investigation. It was started by members of the FBI and Justice Dept. - McCabe, Comey, Rosenstein (all Republican). Current FBI Director Wray (also Republican) said it's a legitimate investigation. Senator Burr (Republican), heading up the Senate investigation, has also been pretty objective in its investigation. The House investigation is a mess. Perhaps if Schiff is running it more information will be understood, but both sides seem to be very partisan in the House at this point. Schiff seems pretty fact based, but Castro (D) and Ted Lieu (D) seem like they want to rile people up. I'm not sure Devin Nunes (R) has made an honest statement in 2 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRU67
Here, with J.B., we have much more than a suspicion, or a drunken comment by a low level aide to use the official statement of probable cause. We have him on tape making racist comments, followed by actual people who are saying they were victims of discrimination during his campaign. And he wants to be governor of a diverse state, and to make important decisions affecting all of the people in it. So why isn't this being investigated? I don't know. And I don't understand.
That's my point.
Agree, JB's campaign should be looked at. At most there's some sort of employment law/HR suit, but it shouldn't be dismissed.
Racial discrimination by the campaign would violate Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. It's not a crime but it is a violation of the law.
With respect to Kavanaugh, the aim of the Senate hearing and subsequent FBI investigation was not to bring criminal charges against him for sexual assault. Rather, the purpose was to determine the veracity of the allegations and his rebuttal and determine his fitness to serve on the bench. I don't see how that should be any different here.
You continue to leave out key elements. One, Supreme Court justice is not equivalent to State Governor, two, the PEOPLE of this state can decide on Pritzker's future whereas the PEOPLE of this country had no say in the case of Kavanugh, and, third, sexual assault is a FAR worse crime than racial discrimination (as evidenced by the severity of punishment if convicted)...
BRU, not trying to pick on you, but there's a lot of misleading info here. I agree to an extent but you're leaving out plenty of info.
The investigation started in July 2016 before the dossier existed. The Obama administration should have acted more seriously, I agree. As one of your links states, though, McConnell would not make a bipartisan statement about election interference. I understand why the Obama administration would not make a statement alone to avoid politicizing the issue. 17 varying intelligence agencies did all confirm though there was interference, so like you said, we knew it was happening. It doesn't appear that multiple judges gave out a FISA warrant (every 90 days for several quarters) based simply on one dude's 35 pages of scribble. Some of the specifics were not known at that time and have been discovered during the investigation, such as the social media disinformation campaign on Facebook and Russian bots on Twitter.
Multiple members of his campaign were supposedly working with foreign governments. Trump himself was not supposedly the basis of the investigation.
The findings are supposed to tell us how specifically various Russian entities interfered in the election and what safeguards can be put in place. If criminal acts occurred, those charges will also be made by the special counsel. The Democrats didn't start the investigation. It was started by members of the FBI and Justice Dept. - McCabe, Comey, Rosenstein (all Republican). Current FBI Director Wray (also Republican) said it's a legitimate investigation. Senator Burr (Republican), heading up the Senate investigation, has also been pretty objective in its investigation. The House investigation is a mess. Perhaps if Schiff is running it more information will be understood, but both sides seem to be very partisan in the House at this point. Schiff seems pretty fact based, but Castro (D) and Ted Lieu (D) seem like they want to rile people up. I'm not sure Devin Nunes (R) has made an honest statement in 2 years.
Agree, JB's campaign should be looked at. At most there's some sort of employment law/HR suit, but it shouldn't be dismissed.
Well said. You put a lot more effort into this than I did because it's clear to me that folks like Bru, Wase, etc. already have their mind up on this issue as well as all other political issues. You can spin things however you want in an attempt to justify that "your party is better than the other party" but at the end of the day it isn't. Both sides are guilty of misleading their constituents to earn political favor and, as a result, POWER. That's the common denominator folks. POWER and $$$. Meanwhile ordinary US citizens will continue to quibble about political motivations, conspiracy theories, and things we have no control over...Seems productive
I'll take Rauner, even the worst Republicans is better than the F-tard Dems who F'ed this state up to the point they are threatening people's homes. I just made no selection for County board president and some others that were not contested.
You continue to leave out key elements. One, Supreme Court justice is not equivalent to State Governor, two, the PEOPLE of this state can decide on Pritzker's future whereas the PEOPLE of this country had no say in the case of Kavanugh, and, third, sexual assault is a FAR worse crime than racial discrimination (as evidenced by the severity of punishment if convicted)...
Those who voted on Kavanaugh had the benefit of the hearing in the investigation. You're making a distinction without any difference. Sorry but I just don't see it your way in this case.
BRU, not trying to pick on you, but there's a lot of misleading info here. I agree to an extent but you're leaving out plenty of info.
The investigation started in July 2016 before the dossier existed. The Obama administration should have acted more seriously, I agree. As one of your links states, though, McConnell would not make a bipartisan statement about election interference. I understand why the Obama administration would not make a statement alone to avoid politicizing the issue. 17 varying intelligence agencies did all confirm though there was interference, so like you said, we knew it was happening. It doesn't appear that multiple judges gave out a FISA warrant (every 90 days for several quarters) based simply on one dude's 35 pages of scribble. Some of the specifics were not known at that time and have been discovered during the investigation, such as the social media disinformation campaign on Facebook and Russian bots on Twitter.
Multiple members of his campaign were supposedly working with foreign governments. Trump himself was not supposedly the basis of the investigation.
The findings are supposed to tell us how specifically various Russian entities interfered in the election and what safeguards can be put in place. If criminal acts occurred, those charges will also be made by the special counsel. The Democrats didn't start the investigation. It was started by members of the FBI and Justice Dept. - McCabe, Comey, Rosenstein (all Republican). Current FBI Director Wray (also Republican) said it's a legitimate investigation. Senator Burr (Republican), heading up the Senate investigation, has also been pretty objective in its investigation. The House investigation is a mess. Perhaps if Schiff is running it more information will be understood, but both sides seem to be very partisan in the House at this point. Schiff seems pretty fact based, but Castro (D) and Ted Lieu (D) seem like they want to rile people up. I'm not sure Devin Nunes (R) has made an honest statement in 2 years.
Agree, JB's campaign should be looked at. At most there's some sort of employment law/HR suit, but it shouldn't be dismissed.
I think we got a little out into the weeds with this Russia investigation thing. I merely opined that I didn't think that investigation should have happened. So I was defending that point and we kind of went down the rabbit hole. It's definitely an interesting topic, and one that you and I could probably debate for some time. I am very curious to see what Mueller has to say after the election on what he found.
But for purposes of this thread, I think the Pritzker race discrimination case is similar to the Kavanaugh situation. I think you and I agree in that it is a serious issue. Where we may differ is that I think it touches on his fitness for office, so I feel there should be an investigation and a hearing prior to the election so the voters have the information, just like Senate got with Judge Kavanaugh
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