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Well, for one, you keep saying "if he said that" and it's actually the basis of his Indexing philosophy. A 2 minute read on Jack Bogle usually begins with the thesis lol.
And number two, buddy, it's your money. Do whatever you want with it. Call it speculating, call it investing, call it whatever you want. You are correct in that Investing has no Gospel to it. There are people that believe Indexing is stupid. There are people that believe Indexing is the only way.
As for me, I'm remaining locked into the teachings of Bogle.
Now you’re talking about his entire investing thesis and index funds? What does that have to do with saying speculating is gambling.
You lost me there. So I’m pretty much over discussing that particular item.
I’m not throwing it in your face so much as I’m pointing out that you keep offering this sage advice about how people make bad decisions just weeks within the shadow of you doing the same.
You are clearly throwing it in my face. You continue to repeat it every 5 minutes. I learned my lesson and went back to my staying the course philosophy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsright19
You made a massive mistake,
But I didn't lose anything. It was a wash. I was out of the market for a couple of hours on Tuesday, March 24th. That's it. There are people that sold and in late March and have been sitting out this entire time....and guess what, they make Investing Recommendations on this forum too and I don't see you following them around?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsright19
That’s a blessing and a curse. It means you MAY not make it again under real pressure, however, early mistakes are the most costly of all because they have the longest to compound. There should be no sense of relief because “oh I made it early”.
I didn't lose anything. It was a wash. I was out of the market for a couple of hours on Tuesday, March 24th. You need to drop this and stop bringing it up. It's irrelevant at this point.
Now, if I was still on the sidelines all of this time, then it's relevant.
well here is the models i follow and since i started in 1987 it has beaten indexing in an s&p fund or total market fund by over 500k starting with 100k ....
that involves occasional fund swaps to better choices .... quite a few of us use these models here .
so yeah it is not hard at all to beat the indexing concept bogle sold to investors .
These are not simple models that the regular, everyday, individual investor can follow. You have to keep in mind that 80% of America lives paycheck to paycheck. 50% can't come up with $400 for an emergency expense.
Finance needs to be kept as simple as possible for the regular, everyday, individual investor.
Maybe for someone like MathJak, it can be more technical and complex, but to go back to The OP's original post, the man is already confused and is seeking simplification. If you keep confusing the regular, everyday, individual investor with all of these complicated models, fund swaps, etc., etc., you know what they end up doing MathJak? NOTHING. They don't invest at all.
Now you’re talking about his entire investing thesis and index funds? What does that have to do with saying speculating is gambling.
You lost me there.
What I'm saying is that if you have read up on Jack Bogle, you would know within 2 minutes what he refers to as speculation, gambling, and "The Casino".
What I'm saying is that if you have read up on Jack Bogle, you would know within 2 minutes what he refers to as speculation, gambling, and "The Casino".
You are clearly throwing it in my face. You continue to repeat it every 5 minutes. I learned my lesson and went back to my staying the course philosophy.
But I didn't lose anything. It was a wash. I was out of the market for a couple of hours on Tuesday, March 24th. That's it. There are people that sold and in late March and have been sitting out this entire time....and guess what, they make Investing Recommendations on this forum too and I don't see you following them around?
I didn't lose anything. It was a wash. I was out of the market for a couple of hours on Tuesday, March 24th. You need to drop this and stop bringing it up. It's irrelevant at this point.
Now, if I was still on the sidelines all of this time, then it's relevant.
Interesting. I wonder which “couple of hours” it was. Because that day was the biggest percentage gain in over 80 years, and largest point gain ever. Those could have been a costly “couple of hours”. It wasn’t just any old day. But yes, it’s so reassuring for me to know that you don’t think you can time.
Also, it’s interesting you recommend indexing, which benefits from averaging in at different prices, but then you say here...there’s little effect? But didn’t you just shift all your money in at the same cost basis? So you changed your cost basis across asset classes, industry, company, ect.
Interesting. I wonder which “couple of hours” it was. Because that day was the biggest percentage gain in over 80 years, and largest point gain ever. Those could have been a costly “couple of hours”.
Also, it’s interesting you recommend indexing, which benefits from averaging in at different prices, but then you say here...there’s little effect? But didn’t you just shift all your money in at the same cost basis?
Lol, Sir listen, I'm not talking about this anymore. J.L. Collins is one of the most respected people in The Investing Community today and that man timed the market for years, losing a ton of money in the process. But yet, you want to keep hampering on my one attempt at doing it and because it didn't turn out well, I should be written off to ever speak on Investing again lol?
That's absurd.
Sir, I've already explained the situation to you a 1,000 times already. I'm done discussing it. Now if that bothers you that's fine, you don't have to read anything I post on this forum. There's an Ignore Button. But I'm not spending a second discussing this anymore.
Your focus needs to be on The OP anyway. You've gotten completely off the topic of this thread. The topic of this thread is NOT why did Ambitious try to time the market on Tuesday, March 24th, 2020.
These are not simple models that the regular, everyday, individual investor can follow. You have to keep in mind that 80% of America lives paycheck to paycheck. 50% can't come up with $400 for an emergency expense.
Finance needs to be kept as simple as possible for the regular, everyday, individual investor.
Maybe for someone like MathJak, it can be more technical and complex, but to go back to The OP's original post, the man is already confused and is seeking simplification. If you keep confusing the regular, everyday, individual investor with all of these complicated models, fund swaps, etc., etc., you know what they end up doing MathJak? NOTHING. They don't invest at all.
Please ...... stop with your silly answers ...my 80 year old aunt has been following their models for years ...my ex wife follows them ,, we have many right here who follow those models ....so don’t tell us regular people don’t follow them ..
The beauty is there is nothing to know or do ...you get an email when there are any changes a few times a year and done ..
Portfolio mgmt requires nothing but 30 seconds a week
This thread is about what investing approach can work for The OP who needs simplification. This thread is not about what's the best investing approach that works for MathJak, nor MathJak's inner circle, nor is it about the best investing approach that can produce the most "gains".
- The thread is about what investing approach can work for The OP going forward, where he can set an allocation and stay the course for 20 - 40 years. Something basic and simple. That's what this thread is about.
- The OP says he's not an investor, is frustrated with all of this investing "jargon", and confused with all of the investing theories, approaches, formulas, models, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc. It's making his head spin.
- He wants to invest, but he wants simplification.
- So that's why I recommended for The OP to following the philosophy of Jack Bogle and The Bogleheads, in relation to holding no more than 2 or 3 Funds, setting the proper allocation based on Risk Tolerance (appetite for volatility), and staying the course for 20 - 40 years or more. That's simplification and allows The OP to put his monies into the market, then move on with his life, rather than having to continue to wreck his brain over this stuff.
- YOU (MathJak) came in and immediately started discussing what YOU (MathJak) would do and have done, but this thread isn't about YOU. MathJak has no issue tracking the reporting, prospectus, etc., on 8 to 10 Bond Funds, multiple Equity Funds, Fund Swaps, allocations to Gold, and all other types of Formulas that all have the ability to potentially beat the performance of Core holdings such as The Total Bond Index and The S&P 500 Index. But this thread isn't about MathJak.
- It's also not about me either (even though you and Thatsright19 have tried to make it about me).
- It's about The OP and what should The OP do for simplification.
- The OP already has stated that he doesn't want to do what you keep brow-beating him into doing, which is spending even MORE time reading, reading, reading, reading, and reading about Investing. Yes, The OP is probably more interested in learning (as you stated) about their car or refrigerator than 8 to 10 damn Bond Funds. And that's okay!
- That's why Vanguard Index Funds were created. It was created for people like The OP. Vanguard wasn't created for people like MathJak and that's fine. MathJak should go do what suits him and those of us like The OP can do what suits us. If MathJak gets better returns than we do, that's fine! The bottom line is we saved, invested, beat inflation, and have something waiting for us in Retirement to do a withdrawal rate of 2% to 4% off of.
That's the goal here.
What really ticks me off with you MathJak, is you think everybody needs to follow lock step with whatever YOU say. Everything is either "fall in line lock step, or you are stupid and need to go read".
It's this extreme, arrogant, and elitist attitude that turns people off about Investing. You need to stop it. You aren't helping anybody when you do this, all you are doing is further turning people off.
Last edited by Ambitious994; 04-23-2020 at 12:53 PM..
Please ...... stop with your silly answers ...my 80 year old aunt has been following their models for years ...my ex wife follows them ,, we have many right here who follow those models ....so don’t tell us regular people don’t follow them ..
The beauty is there is nothing to know or do ...you get an email when there are any changes a few times a year and done ..
Portfolio mgmt requires nothing but 30 seconds a week
Exactly.
They just need to use it. They don’t need to understand it anymore than a pill I take doesn’t require me to know how it was developed and why it works on my body.
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