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Old 05-21-2011, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,279,617 times
Reputation: 7407

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Just speaking for myself. I am home. I was born, raised and educated right here in the USA. As are many Muslims here in the USA. Islam is a religion, not a Nationality or race. We come in all flavors.

All of us here except for Native Americans are invaders, immigrants, captives or conquerors. All of us share in the decimation of the First Nation People.

This very same question can be asked of all of us who are not Native American.

To be fair the real question should be "Why don't non-First Nation People leave America and go back home?"

Yes, like the early Christian Settlers we do desire America to one day be Islamic Just as the Christian Missionaries wanted it to be Christian.

That does not mean we want to over throw the country. any conversion to Islam can only come through individual choice and by free will. the fact many are making that choice does not mean they have been brain washed or coerced. Many if not most Converts are well educated and were practicing Christians Some converts have never even seen a Muslim in person. We have no ordained religious leaders and place high emphasis on personal choices and responsibility.

I do not expect anyone to welcome the growth of us in America, but at the same time, there is no need to fear us. While we may want you to accept Islam because we believe it to be the truth, we are not going to force anyone to accept what we believe. We are not very evangelical and do not go door to door trying to get converts.

Peaceful coexistence is not only possible, it is a necessity in this ever shrinking world.

 
Old 05-21-2011, 11:02 AM
 
1,811 posts, read 977,893 times
Reputation: 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Just speaking for myself. I am home. I was born, raised and educated right here in the USA. As are many Muslims here in the USA. Islam is a religion, not a Nationality or race. We come in all flavors.

All of us here except for Native Americans are invaders, immigrants, captives or conquerors. All of us share in the decimation of the First Nation People.

This very same question can be asked of all of us who are not Native American.

To be fair the real question should be "Why don't non-First Nation People leave America and go back home?"

Yes, like the early Christian Settlers we do desire America to one day be Islamic Just as the Christian Missionaries wanted it to be Christian.

That does not mean we want to over throw the country. any conversion to Islam can only come through individual choice and by free will. the fact many are making that choice does not mean they have been brain washed or coerced. Many if not most Converts are well educated and were practicing Christians Some converts have never even seen a Muslim in person. We have no ordained religious leaders and place high emphasis on personal choices and responsibility.

I do not expect anyone to welcome the growth of us in America, but at the same time, there is no need to fear us. While we may want you to accept Islam because we believe it to be the truth, we are not going to force anyone to accept what we believe. We are not very evangelical and do not go door to door trying to get converts.

Peaceful coexistence is not only possible, it is a necessity in this ever shrinking world.
Silly boy, they are going to take your country, and probably your life, from you in due time. It is called JIHAD.
 
Old 05-21-2011, 11:24 AM
 
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
15,504 posts, read 17,728,729 times
Reputation: 30796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post

"All of us here except for Native Americans are invaders, immigrants, captives Why don't non-First Nation People leave America and go back home?"
This statement implies that all Native Americans are descendants of a single, founding population. That is simply not the case. In fact, most of the current range of the Inuit dates to after the Norsemen visited the continent. Current accepted estimates for settlement populations by peoples immigrating to the Americas from Asia span a period of over 25,000 years. Some Inuit groups in the far west are thought to have had ancestors living in northeast Asia as recently as the 1400s.

Another thing to think about, the Navajo moved into their current region from what is now Canada only a few generations before the Spanish come on the scene. Should they go back to Alberta?

The Europeans for good or bad, have created a stable, prosperous, and increasingly fair (by historic standards) society. While the crimes and oppression of the colonial and settlement periods are justifiably vilified, a certain balance based on humanist philosophies based in the Western tradition are beginning to take effect and hopefully the next century will see unprecedented opportunity for Native Americans. It is already happening.

Why should peoples whose mores would destroy that stability by a dogged refusal to live by the standards set forth in the North American states be allowed to do so by virtue of the fact that they, like the Euro-Americans's ancestors, are not indigenous to this place?

Muslims, or any people, who are willing and prepared to accommodate the future of the nations of North America and receive its benefits in exchange for their support, are welcome. Those who seek to undermine North American states (which would be much to the detriment of Native Americans, as well, make no mistake), can stay out.
 
Old 05-21-2011, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,279,617 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffington View Post
Silly boy, they are going to take your country, and probably your life, from you in due time. It is called JIHAD.
I have never had any fear from a true Muslim, even when I was an Evangelist in Iran and other Islamic nations, trying to convert Muslims to Christianity.

Do you know what Jihad is? Like all people I am a mujaheddin and have been fighting jihad for over 70 years the greater inner jihad is the greatest battle we each must face.. There is a difference between the greater and the lesser jihad. the lesser jihad (Physical conflict) can only be fought out of defense and is not to be an act of aggression.
 
Old 05-21-2011, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
8,036 posts, read 4,199,828 times
Reputation: 3039
Integration and living together in peace is what America is all about. The problem is that many Muslims come to America wanting to bring aspects of their culture with them -- ones that happen to trample all over the laws and notions of human rights in the USA. Honor killings and forced marriages come to mind. And it is extremely unfortunate that so many Muslims today seem to yearn for Sharia Law to be implemented. Sharia Law creates a world where all non-Muslims are second-class citizens who must pay Jizrah Tax - a tax you pay just for not being Muslim. No doubt Muslims think that having dominion over everyone else sounds like a fine idea, but you have to understand that non-Muslims of today are not accustomed to the idea of paying a tax just to think and believe what they want. And the non-Muslim world looks on in horror at how the Muslim nations treat those who are not of their faith. Christians are massacred. Baha'i are massacred. Buddhists are persecuted and massacred. To non-Muslims, that is what they expect the world to be like if Muslims are in control.

And the problem isn't most Muslims. Most seem to want to live in peace together and don't harbor notions of world domination. But it's the extremists that are talking the loudest, and that's what is scaring the crap out of Christian and non-Muslims everywhere.
 
Old 05-21-2011, 12:20 PM
 
1,745 posts, read 1,884,262 times
Reputation: 943
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffington View Post
Silly boy, they are going to take your country, and probably your life, from you in due time. It is called JIHAD.
Ooohhh

Is that anything like manifest destiny?
 
Old 05-21-2011, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,279,617 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
Integration and living together in peace is what America is all about. The problem is that many Muslims come to America wanting to bring aspects of their culture with them -- ones that happen to trample all over the laws and notions of human rights in the USA. Honor killings and forced marriages come to mind. And it is extremely unfortunate that so many Muslims today seem to yearn for Sharia Law to be implemented. Sharia Law creates a world where all non-Muslims are second-class citizens who must pay Jizrah Tax - a tax you pay just for not being Muslim. No doubt Muslims think that having dominion over everyone else sounds like a fine idea, but you have to understand that non-Muslims of today are not accustomed to the idea of paying a tax just to think and believe what they want. And the non-Muslim world looks on in horror at how the Muslim nations treat those who are not of their faith. Christians are massacred. Baha'i are massacred. Buddhists are persecuted and massacred. To non-Muslims, that is what they expect the world to be like if Muslims are in control.

And the problem isn't most Muslims. Most seem to want to live in peace together and don't harbor notions of world domination. But it's the extremists that are talking the loudest, and that's what is scaring the crap out of Christian and non-Muslims everywhere.
The view you are describing is also scary to Muslims.

The jizrah tax for non-Muslims is not much different from the Zakat tax they would have to pay if they were Muslim, except jizrah is usually less. People living in virtually every nation pay tax. In Islamic countries it has two different names. Zakat is a religious obligation, Jizrah is a government obligation.

It is true Muslims want shariah law, but most of us want true shariah. Shariah can not be applied to non-Muslims. Under true shariah non-Muslims would not be affected, under real Shariah.

I hope nobody thinks Iran is under shariah. that is not shariah as understood by nearly all of the world's Muslims.
 
Old 05-21-2011, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,279,617 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ball Pean View Post
I tend to think that without Jihad, Islam would not exist. Everyone absolutely MUST respect their pathetic, horrible, false prophet, or else meet the sword. I absolutely hate Muhammad. May he burn in Hell for all eternity where he belongs.
True without Jihad we would not exist as we would have long succumbed to our inner evil that is part of every human.

We have no means to convert any one to Islam. It is only by self searching and our free will can we come to Islam.
 
Old 05-21-2011, 01:06 PM
 
591 posts, read 560,801 times
Reputation: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
True without Jihad we would not exist as we would have long succumbed to our inner evil that is part of every human.

We have no means to convert any one to Islam. It is only by self searching and our free will can we come to Islam.

Yeah, but when everyone in Islam lies and covers up for Muhammad, and wishes peace apon such a monster, it misleads people into thinking he is worthy of love OVER that and INSTEAD of the one true God. The ones going to Islam because of free will are being misled by Muhammad lovers, all those that tolerate and love that lying, thieving, mass murdering, slave raping, pedophelic monster.

Last edited by Ball Pean; 05-21-2011 at 01:20 PM..
 
Old 05-21-2011, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Metromess
11,798 posts, read 21,974,576 times
Reputation: 5074
I think we are all born as neutral, blank slates, neither good nor evil. What we become is a result of our experiences and how we use them. Most people belong to a particular religion because of their early environments, although some convert to a different one (or to none, as I have). There are good and bad apples in all the barrels.
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