The-Messenger-of-God-Muhammad (Egypt, verses, convert, Mecca)

[Khalif]

Originally Posted by Imposcemathem

In 622 - Mohammad was literally forcibly, violently kicked out of Mecca because he was attempting to introduce blasphemy and heresy and problems for the community who hated and detested the God Of Abraham - his wild and insane Idea - of The God Of Abraham.

Community hated and detested the God of Abraham?
That means you are inadvertently acknowledging that they were aware of the God of Abraham but they hated and detested it. Keep the latter in mind!
They had hated and detested not the God of Abraham but that there was no other god beside the God of Abraham. The difference must be understood.

Originally Posted by Imposcemathem

Mohammad also form an organized community in Mecca of worshipers of THE ONLY GOD - Allah The God Of Abraham.

Again, you admit to Muhammad and his organised community worshipping the God of Abraham called Allah.

Originally Posted by Imposcemathem

Why would these pagans who hate and detest the idea of ONLY one God - why would they name their son after the God Of Abraham / The Hebrew God = meaning - Allah, meaning the ONLY TRUE GOD - NO OTHER GODS - = Allah “ - if everyone around you, your entire business is revolving around making money selling services and worship centered around every pagan deity that could make a profit ?

Because they had not only believed in idol gods but also the God of Abraham; The God.

[Khalif]

Originally Posted by Imposcemathem

This is the type falsehood that Islam demands that people believe.

Islam does not DEMAND people to believe if they don’t want to believe. It was those Pagans who had DEMANDED that Muhammad and his organised community believe in polytheism. Remember, they were “literally forcibly, violently kicked out of Mecca” not because they believed in One God but because they did not believe in 360 gods of Meccan Pagans..

Originally Posted by Imposcemathem

We are asked to believe that Allah was always the same meaning, the same deity, Allah served the same purpose and was always the same old God that was presented in the Bible.
When Mohammad even just simply introduced the thought, the idea and began speaking about this concept = Mecca rolled in disgust and horror and drove him and his friends out from among them. Mohammad’s own FAMILY rejected him.

And paid the price for their disgusting behaviour when Muhammad and his community was “literally forcibly, violently kicked out of Mecca” for not worshipping idol gods.

[Khalif]

Originally Posted by Imposcemathem

His own uncle “ Abu Talib “ demanded “ if Mohammed wanted to be the leader we will let him be the leader { if he will stop calling for Islam.” } I'm afraid to be blamed or insulted or I would have followed you and announced it. “

It wasn’t his uncle Abu Talib who demanded that Muhammad give up Islam. You have the facts wrong here. Did Muhammad stop calling to Islam? No. That means he was not interested in being leader of Pagans.
As for his uncle, he had protected Muhammad until the uncle died. And the same uncle’s son, Ali, was with Muhammad and the very first male member of Muhammad’s family to accept Islam. His father (Abu Talib) did not stop him.

Originally Posted by Imposcemathem

Mohammad’s uncle “ Abu Talib “ was not declaring that he would announce and declare and follow ISLAM - because it was truth - but because it was just another religion to make money from, but it was not accepted among his tribe - he was afraid his reputation and business and entire livelihood would be completely destroyed.

Exactly! Him not accepting Islam was nothing to do with truth but to do with ego of a tribe’s leader and/or for business interest. Some others also didn’t do so because of the same reason until they lost everything in fighting Muhammad to make him accept polytheism.

Originally Posted by Imposcemathem

When his uncle “ Abu Talib “ was about to die , Muhammad asked him to pronounce the Shahadah. But one of Quraysh's tribal polytheist, said to Abu Talib “ Will you die on the religion of Abdel Mutalib [, the father of Abu Talib, ] or not?

Then Abu Talib pronounced his faith ONLY in the pagan religion of “ Abdel Mutalib “ and died. - rejecting any notion, any IDEA - that the concept of “ Allah “ was anything related to the idea of - THE ONLY DEITY.

On the other hand, he had protected Muhammad and had even entrusted Muhammad to bring up his son (Ali).

Originally Posted by Imposcemathem

And you are here to tell us that Mohammad’s family and tribesmen all knowingly knew that they had named their son as “ Abd – Allah “ to indicate that there was only one God - alone ?

No. I am not here to tell you that. YOU are here to tell me that they were unaware of the concept of Allah even though someone had named his son as Abdullah (abd of allah).

Originally Posted by Imposcemathem

This is preposterous and completely impossible, don’t you think ?

Read 23:85-89, stated in one of my previous posts. They admit to knowing something about Allah.

Originally Posted by Imposcemathem

The Fact is -: The Kaaba was the name of the pagan temple in the city of Mecca that held the 360 pagan idols. - Murrah ibn " Ka'b " - was Mohammad’ s great, great, great, great, great grand - father. He was also named after this Pagan Temple - His last name was The " Kaa'b " indicating = Kaaba.

So the Ka’ba predates Ka’b. What’s the point?

[Khalif]

Originally Posted by Imposcemathem

Also the name " lib Baal " - comes from the pagan god = " Ag - libol " - Ag - libaal was a Pre - Islamic Pagan god. - Ag - libaal - was a lunar deity. His name means "Calf / leg of Bel" (" Calf of the Lord"). Leg of the god = " lib Baal " –

So? What’s your point?

Originally Posted by Imposcemathem

The revelation of The Quran declares that one of the few body parts that " ALLAH " has - is a shin. - the shin is located just behind the calf muscle. The LEG OF ALLAH - is also mentioned as one of the few body parts of The God Of Islam. The Arabian Pagan god = " Ag - Libaal " is depicted with a lunar halo decorating his head and sometimes his shoulders, and one of his attributes is the sickle moon.

The Qur’an declares:

[112.1] Say: He, Allah, is One.
[112.2] Allah is He on Whom all depend.
[112.3] He begets not, nor is He begotten.
[112.4] And none is like Him.

Allah can’t be described in terms of human language and by something humans know in essence. NONE is like Him. Any reference to legs, hands, eyes, mouth, tongue or his chair is symbolic rather than literal.

[Khalif]

Originally Posted by Imposcemathem

Mohammad spends his entire life looking for ways to redirect and re – insert the OLD pre - Islamic paganism into his religion in order to gain new converts and grow in numbers and popularity and expand his religion.

Strange you would say that when the very Pagans around him were against his religion. Don't you think Muhammad was doing opposite to that which you claim here?
At least those Pagans never managed to crucify and kill Muhammad. Allah definitely protected him from those Pagans.

Originally Posted by Imposcemathem

" Hubbaa " bint Hulail - was Mohammad's great-great-great-grandfather. = " Hub -baal and " was the main and the very top - Pre - Islamic Pagan god, worshipped by the Quraysh ( Mohammad’ s very own family ) at the Kaaba in Mecca. This idol was a human figure that controlled divination and power.

Would you now care to tell us what happened to that idol god? Did Muhammad insert that idol god into his religion?

[Khalif]

Originally Posted by Imposcemathem

Would you realize that any comparison between Islam and Quran evaluated and compared to the Law of Moses and Torah / Gospels - in every last detail, every aspect - they are both a very distant reality that oppose one another as invalid, incapable, unqualified claims of faith.

In every last detail? In every aspect?
Perhaps you are referring to Old Testament, New Testament and the Last Testament.

Originally Posted by Imposcemathem

This means that one is telling the truth and the other is a total falsehood. They both declare the other to be a message from the wicked one.

Which two and which other?

Originally Posted by Imposcemathem

But the Quran has no prophecies or revelations.

The Qur’an is Revelation. It’s not a story book.

Originally Posted by Imposcemathem

The very idea that the message Of Mohammad was a revelation or prophecy is completely false.

According to you but not according to me.

Originally Posted by Imposcemathem

Mohammad himself demanded that everything he taught, everything he believed, in Islam - All of these teachings, claims and statements were already present and existing in the Torah and the Gospels.

Even Allah? Even praying? Even fasting? Even Hajj?

[Khalif]

Originally Posted by Imposcemathem

How can these Islamic teachings and claims be considered as REVELATION and PROPHECY - if the very thing that Mohammad is saying, everything he is demanding to be truth - it already found in the pages of the Bible. - This is not what a prophet does……….

Then did the previous prophets and messengers bring completely different message every time from the previous messages?

Originally Posted by Imposcemathem

How is this making Mohammad a prophet ? - to make claims, statements, announcements and declarations - then claim that all of these same exact teachings are all already found written in the very Bible that he is holding in his very hands ? This is not a revelation and prophecy. It has nothing to do with revelation and prophecy.

Was he holding the Bible in his very hands? When? Where?

Originally Posted by Imposcemathem

If I was holding a book in my hand and proceed to tell you what is written in this book while demanding that I am giving you a spiritually received revelation and prophecy - I am not receiving anything that requires a revealed prophecy of future or past events and hidden truths and forgotten laws and ordinances.

If you were, of course!

[Khalif]

Originally Posted by Imposcemathem

Everything about Mohammad’s ministry is orbiting around the present. All we see are things like - How many times should I have sex tonight. What kind of women do I need to have sexual experiences within in a month or two from now. How do I convince my jealous wife to allow me to have sex with her sensuous slave girl. How much camel urine should we drink, how many flies do we dip into our food and drink. What is the least amount of prayers that Muslims have to pray. Should we pass gas during prayer.

I think you have been reading hadith books written 200 years after the Qur’an. Muhammad had delivered the Qur’an; not hadith books.

Originally Posted by Imposcemathem

The so - called revelations of the Quran are not revealing and prophesying anything whatsoever concerning events that had not already happened. All of these things were already happening.

There is so much in the Qur’an that was going to happen but it doesn’t sound as if you have actually read the Qur’an.

Originally Posted by Imposcemathem

We see - The prophecy of The Last day, "When will the Hour be?' He said: 'When the slave woman gives birth to her mistress' (Waki' said: This means when non-Arabs will give birth to Arabs") 'and when you see barefoot, naked, destitute shepherds competing in constructing tall buildings.

Nothing like that is in the Qur’an.
Read the proper answer in the Qur’an 33:63.

Originally Posted by Imposcemathem

But this had been going on since thousands of years before Mohammad. Shepherds and slaves and farmers had been constructing tall building thousands of years before Mohammad. Just because a handful of shepherds have lost their shoes and have little clothing to wear this year - suddenly the end times are very near ? And slave girls have been having sex with their masters and their masters sons since the beginning of time. Are we to believe that never before had a slave or a WORKER given birth to a child and that child grew up to later have some type of authority over their parents or fellow slaves?

Again, nothing like that in the Qur’an. These narratives contradict the Qur’an and, therefore, must be rejected.

Originally Posted by Imposcemathem

Other So – Called prophecy - or revelation of Mohammad was that - The hour will not come until there has been rain which will destroy all dwellings except tents.”

In which verse of the Qur’an is that prophecy? I have never read it in the Qur’an.

[Khalif]

Originally Posted by Imposcemathem

The word Allah in fact was changed from a pagan deity and the female form of Allah is the Daughter Of Allah - Allat Allah had three daughters 1. Allaht 2. Allah – Uzza and 3. Manaat ….

So the Pagans already knew the word “allah” (al-ilah = the god) but then they had created his family too in terms of 3 daughters. Then they began to worship three daughters too. And so it goes on to 360 gods. It began with one and went on beyond 360. Then the pagans kept god’s son and wife but not the daughters.
And Muhammad? He got rid of all except ALLAH.

Originally Posted by Imposcemathem

The term Allah - already applied to female deities and Mohammad was still worshiping them even after he destroyed their Idols and Images….

Muhammad wasn’t worshipping female deities or Allah’s daughters. He destroyed them as they were idols.

Coming back to the term “Allah”, remember your claim that the Pagans had hated and detested it as the God of Abraham. And I had asked you to keep it mind.

Now did the Pagans hate and detest it as God of Abraham or hate and detest it as their own three deities?

Think of it before you discuss Islam here.

[Imposcemathem]

Please realize that - Abu Talib, Mohammad’s uncle was about 75 years old - nearly an 80 year old man when his own son - " Ali " converted to Islam.

There is not very much that a nearly 80-year-old man can do to prevent his son from converting to Islam.
What would one expect from a 75 year old man - when his son is converting to another religion ?

However, we also find that " Abu Talib " had said to Mohammad = "Spare me and yourself and put not burden on me that I can’t bear".

In other words, Abu Talib could not bear the violent situation that Mohammad was putting him through. Nearly everyone around Mohammad in Mecca was trying to make sure that Mohammad stopped disrupting their economic system and trading and business. Mecca did not belong to Mohammad.

Mohammad and his agitators had entered into the Meccan’s temple and began to disrupt their private business and cause problems by mocking and deriding and scoffing and harmful things about their system of making a living. Mohammad did not OWN the temple if the Kaaba.

The second reason that the Meccans did not want Muhammad to cause problems in their temple was that Mohammad was demanding possession and control of the Kaaba, the city’s public worship arena.
The Meccans had no problem with Muslims circling the Kaaba, it was that Muslims wanted to prevent and get in the way of and disrupt everyone else from doing so.

When Muhammad returned to conquer Mecca in 630, he ordered the forcible violent removal of anyone who refused to convert to Islam (Quran, 9:18-19)

We find the facts in - (Sura 2:191, 193) “And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for fitna is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers… And fight them until fitna is no more, and religion is for Allah.

Also - Ibn Kathir narrates one of the adversaries as saying, "Once he has gone, we shouldn't care where he ends up or what happens to him. So long as he is gone, we'll be rid of him and we'll be able to restore our affairs as they were before." (Vol.2 p.152).

Again, the Kaaba did not belong to Mohammad. The Meccan’s asked Mohammad to leave and had to drive him out of their place of worship. Mohammad returned and demanded to enter the Kaaba as if it belonged to him and if they tried to drive him out of their temple again - he commanded that they be slaughtered and killed in their very own temple. In their place of business.

I understand that you reject or decline going back in time to recorded Jewish history in the Bible. But the Bible history today * now * is proving that revelation and prophecy is being confirmed today in real time.
The Bible is the only prophecy that exists on earth with an accuracy rate of 100 %. There is no politics in these revelations. -

This is not politics and has nothing to do with political ideologies.
The prophecies, revelations, and foretelling of the Jews returning to their homeland, this has absolutely nothing to do with political matters as it is stated / recorded - in the BIBLICAL account. The Bible does not tell about the political side of these matters.

But to simply realize and accept that the Jews have returned from being scattered in the nations and the victory, triumph and protection – the protective hand that is promised / sworn repeatedly in the scriptures is absolutely firm standing. ?

In respect to you, I tell you - that this is very untruthful, to insert today’s political atmosphere into basic Biblical foretold prophecy and use pretend to use politics and political views as a tool, to sweep aside the very prophecies that have existed for thousands of years. The Bible does not detail the political details - NOR DID MY POST. Sir or Madam.

My friend, - But just because the prophecies exist and have come to pass and are affirmed by reality, why is this a valid reason to conceal these prophecies. I never mentioned anything concern any political subject matter in my previous post. To take basic Biblical prophecy, revelation and foretold events and - twist the Bible data into a political policy and a pretense manifesto of political agendas. - Just to erase and bypass this reality, is this the distraction and divergence that fulfilled prophecies deserve ?

Also - The citation of Quran [23.83] - telling of some sort of claim that - our Ishmaelite descendants / fathers / aforetime - were given some sort of promises from god.
There are no such scriptures nor historical accounts anywhere that vindicates this.

In fact the Bible shows that the Ishmaelites were enemies of God himself - and the enemies of Israel and God promises to completely destroy the seed of Ishmael totally. Political data is not a part of the presentation of Biblica prophecy concerning a single point of these matters.

Political issues in the Middle East are completely irrelevant to Bible prophecy. The Bible does not need to use politics to reveal prophecy and foretell anything. The prophecy comes to pass, regardless of political matters. Is this something that Muslims can never accept, because they have no scriptures for their faith, no prophecy nor revelation or any reality or history is confirmed by the Quran.

When relying on things that do not exist, Muslims simply invent other things that do not exist such as equating the Bible to a political manifesto or propaganda script in order to pretend to have somehow crushed out the message.

Also, the very reason that Pagans had never managed to kill Muhammad. Is because Mohammad use violence, torture, pain, suffering and warfare and theft of property and the promises of sexual pleasures - to continue to preach his message in Mecca.

The Meccan citizens had a business, a trade and successful generational entrepreneurship of providing services to travelers for hundreds of miles surrounding Mecca. For generations, the families worked and made a living taking care of the idols and provided services, pleasures, and victuals for the visitors who came to Mecca to worship and receive spiritual and physical gratifications.

They made it clear to Mohammad that they did not want his business in Mecca, they were not interested in his god in the Kaaba - while he was disrupting their way of making a living. -

Mohammad began to attempt to destroy their business and disrupt their system and go throughout Mecca propagating his NEW idea that there was only one god. When the Meccan people rejected him and asked him to leave or just stop disrupting their business, he refused. So the Meccan citizens drove him out in order to save their commerce, economic system, and business and their livelihood. Mohammad had no concern nor regards that their only way of making a living orbited around the service and maintenance of 360 idols and to hundreds of pagan deities.

He was asked to leave their business multiple times. He refused, so they forced him out.
Mohammad then returned and busted into their temple, entered their private business - into their place of business and went about smashing, shattering and breaking every image, destroying everything that they used to make a living.

This was not Mohammad’s property, he did not own the land where the Kaaba existed, Mohammad did not have financial investments in the business. He had no right to destroy the property and business of the Meccans.

Mohammad disrupted and caused a disturbance to the business, commerce and trade of the Meccans’s - when they asked him to stop, he refused - so they forced him to leave their properties.
Mohammad then started the conflict and violence - BY REFUSING TO TRUST IN HIS GOD TO SUSTAIN HIM. Instead, he attacked them on their property, in their city, entered into their temple just because they asked him to leave them alone.

How is this the protection of Allah ? You disrupt a business and are asked to leave their properties alone, then you refuse and are forced to leave, and then you return back to the properties belonging to others, to a business that does not belong to you - and you completely violently destroy everything and then proceed to violently attack, kill and violently make war on people - when you are on and in - THEIR personal property, in their place of business.

If Mohammad had trusted in his god to protect him, he would have respected the property, belongings, the lands and homes and temple of others. And Mohammad would have waited on his god to provide everything he needed to live and sustain himself. BUT ALLAH DID NOT PROVIDE, ALLAH DID NOT SUSTAIN, ALLAH DID NOT - soon enough give to - Mohammad what he needed to survive, so he began to attack and make war upon others on their property and in their place of business. Mohammad did not own the Kaaba and the land, it did not belong to him. He instead took their property and enslaved them.

The fact is that later - Muhammad did give praise to the three daughters of Allah..

- Allat, Alla-Uzza and Manat. Mohammad confirmed their existence as deities is important to Allah and that they intercede spiritually before Allah.

Muslims only want Islam and the Quran to be thought of in the context of a reality that does not exist. If someone trying to create a new religion had walked into the Mosque in Saudi Arabia today and demanded that Allah is not god and began to disrupt and create problems, the Muslims would ask him to leave. Then they would force him to leave if it was necessary. For this person to return and demand his armies or militants to slaughter all Muslims in the Mosque, only if they attack you. Of course, they are going to attempt to drive you out and away from their Islamic Mosques and properties.

But this is how Muslims expect people to think long and hard about their claims as they attempt to justify and turn an intruding violent villain into a victim and attempt to turn fulfilled ancient Bible prophecies and revelations into political events.

There was no politics involved in the returning of the Jews to their homeland. It was a good business deal for the Muslims living in Israel. They were paid good money at a fair price.
Israel even offered the Palestinians 97% of the land they claimed to be fighting for in 2000. - Israel is the only and the very first country ever to freely give the Palestinians a state. This offer was always rejected by the Palestinians in multiple offers..

Muslims want more than to just to live in or near Israel- just like Mohammad, they are not content just to live and go where they please, they want to dominate and change and control and forcibly maintain power over others who are not like them, and destroy everything that disagreed with their invented political and historical fantasies and very short - term un - historical, altered, un vindicated - and un prophetic - reality, .