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Old 11-29-2008, 11:40 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,038,348 times
Reputation: 161

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spindle View Post
I'm agnostic, but let's take for example, the story of Moses who supposedly parted the red sea, crossed it with his people, then closed it so the pursuing egyptians couldn't cross. Wouldn't that be an example of how a powerful God avoided bloodshed?
but the egyptions didn't survived , they drowned ( all of them )

i think that there are purposes and wisdom for everything including fight
we believe that mohammed (pbuh) is the seal of prophets in this world
muslims should follow his teaching in every thing we should to take him as a typical example for muslims as a leader , governer , human , preacher , husband and fighter
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Old 11-30-2008, 12:42 AM
 
787 posts, read 1,546,250 times
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Quote:
but the egyptions didn't survived , they drowned ( all of them )
ok, let's say that they did survive and could not pursue because there was a giant sea in front of them - would that not be a better alternative to fighting using God's wisdom and power?

Quote:
i think that there are purposes and wisdom for everything including fight
we believe that mohammed (pbuh) is the seal of prophets in this world
muslims should follow his teaching in every thing we should to take him as a typical example for muslims as a leader , governer , human , preacher , husband and fighter
so God likes wars and killings, so long as it's "just."
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Old 11-30-2008, 04:42 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,038,348 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spindle View Post
ok, let's say that they did survive and could not pursue because there was a giant sea in front of them - would that not be a better alternative to fighting using God's wisdom and power?
let me say that our God dosn't encourage his followeres to be coward or weak .


Quote:
so God likes wars and killings, so long as it's "just."
God want from us to be strong and strict when others imposed us to fight against them , we should to fight just when there is no other solution

- Muslims are forbidden from attacking others who do not attack them:
"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. (The Noble Quran, 2:190)"

And even when war breaks out, if the enemy offers an honest peace, then we should accept it and end the blood shed:
"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). (The Noble Quran, 8:61)"

- And if a treaty of peace was made, then we must honor that treaty to the end:
"Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If God had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: Therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (Guarantees of) peace, then God Hath opened no way for you (to war against them). (The Noble Quran, 4:90)"


"How can there be a league, before God and His Apostle, with the Pagans, except those with whom ye made a treaty near the sacred Mosque? As long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for God doth love the righteous. (The Noble Quran, 9:7)"

so it's clear from these verse that God actually hate the wars , but he hate the opression most

Last edited by elwill; 11-30-2008 at 04:56 AM..
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Old 11-30-2008, 05:57 AM
 
787 posts, read 1,546,250 times
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Quote:
let me say that our God dosn't encourage his followeres to be coward or weak .
resorting to violence is a weakness. Not striking back and reasoning takes a lot more strength.

Quote:
God want from us to be strong and strict when others imposed us to fight against them , we should to fight just when there is no other solution
ok. Let's look at America. Three thousand people who had nothing to do with the middle east were killed on American soil. America therefore should have the right to wage war according to your rules.

Anyway, it doesn't sound like "God hates wars," rather "God doesn't mind wars so long as they are justified." This doesn't sound like a God of a religion of peace and I'll leave our discussion there before we start running around in circles.
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Old 11-30-2008, 06:19 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,038,348 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spindle View Post
Anyway, it doesn't sound like "God hates wars," rather "God doesn't mind wars so long as they are justified." This doesn't sound like a God of a religion of peace and I'll leave our discussion there before we start running around in circles.
okey , i will respect your will , and thank you for your listenning

see you around

peace
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Old 11-30-2008, 06:52 AM
 
787 posts, read 1,546,250 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
okey , i will respect your will , and thank you for your listenning

see you around

peace
peace

Last edited by Spindle; 11-30-2008 at 07:16 AM..
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Old 04-28-2012, 07:16 PM
 
Location: Saudi Arabia
27 posts, read 30,679 times
Reputation: 17
may Allah reward you my brother

thanks
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:06 PM
 
39,018 posts, read 10,812,637 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spindle View Post
ok, let's say that they did survive and could not pursue because there was a giant sea in front of them - would that not be a better alternative to fighting using God's wisdom and power?

so God likes wars and killings, so long as it's "just."
That's my take and Islam is a particular example of it. The apologetics in the first post strike me as self -serving if not to say deceptive. Islam's conversion by the sword began when Muhammad was thrown out of Mecca for violently disrespecting the religion there. He came back with an armed mob and conflict began which continues today. It is true that Islam began in Java by peacefully marrying and converting the local women and eventually the Rajah became a sultan. As soon as that was done, he began to make Holy war on his neighbours.

Sure, Islam is fine and peaceable so long as eveybody toes the line. As soon as there is dissent - out with the scimitar -or body bombs against any and all soft targets, if the opposition happens to be a bit better at warfare.

I don't want to sound disrespectful, but -as I have said before - I dislike being lied to.

While there are some things to praise in the muslim religion, it comes as pretty high on the list of religions I would steer clear of.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 04-28-2012 at 10:00 PM..
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