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Kaffur derives from the Arabic "kafir", "infidel", which was used by the Arab slave traders when referring to their slaves.
kafir means disbeliever
kafir bi allah means disbelieve in one God , it refer to atheist and idolatiors
kafir bi alislam means disbelieve in islam , it refer to non_muslims
the verb " kafar" which means disbelieved used many times in the tongue of mekkans in thier discussion with mohammed (pbuh) and his followers regarding to disbelieving of mohammed for idolatory religion
i 'm not sure from the meaning of infidel to you , but i don't think that any english translation for quran mentioned the word " infidel" as a translation for the word "kafir"
this word always attached to islam only by nonmuslims
if you want from me to give you veses which mention the word "kafir" to check it's translation by yourself , you are wellcome
with my point view , separation between religion and state didn't spread the peace , it's just spread the violence ( as long as it is separated from religion , so it's not necessery to follow the pecefull teaching of it )
so , the teaching of jesus supposed to be a peace massage for the world . but unfortunatley it will not serve the world if it was separated from it politically , you made your religion a religion of peace inside church , not peace for the world as you suggest
From your question, I think you mistakenly believe I am a Christian. I am not.
I don't believe the teaching of Jesus any more than I believe the teaching of Mohammad. I believe both Christianity and Islam are responsible for a great deal of sensless violence and the promotion of ignorance.
Neither religion should have a role in government.
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Originally Posted by elwill
discuss with me how do you see political islam conflicts with your beliefs ?
First, political islam has one set of laws for muslims, and another for non-muslims. A government should not distinguish between, or favor, a religion. Second, Political islam as practiced is non-democratic. Even area which claim to be islamic democracies are hardly democracies.
As a general matter, and to save time, I don't find the words written in a 2K year old book to be a good source of law. Law should be based on reason.
many people think that muslims hate nonmuslims , so whatever what happenes in the practical life i wanted to describe this relation from sight of view of quran and sunnah
The relationship between Muslims and non Muslims has been explained in details in the Holy Koran and in the Sunnah
Human beings are seen as one big family and that we are brothers and sisters in humanity as Allah says
49.13 O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).
Muhammad (pbuh) emphasized that concept when he said
"all people are equals in the sight of Allah, there is no superiority for Arab over non Arab or for black over white or for white over black the most noble among you in the sight of Allah is he/she who is most righteous and pious"
Allah has given all humans the free will and sent prophets to call people to worship Him and Him alone willingly, we as Muslims are commanded by Allah to call all people to worship their Guardian Lord who created them and this invitation must be according to Allah's command as He says "invite all to the way of your Lord with wisdom and best preaching and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious (Koran 16.125).
however the reactions from people will be different, some will accept the call and they will be Muslims and the others who will reject faith, to those Allah commands us to tell them "to you be your religion (way of life) and to me mine"
Koran 109.6" , as simple as that
but the reactions of those who reject faith will differ too, since Islam stands for equality for all people so it is a threat to dictators, racists who think their race or color or wealth make them superiors, some will fight against Islam, as they may see Islam as a threat and a challenge to their beliefs since Islam rejects blind faith and imitation to one's parents and society without using the most perfected thing Allah ever created the mind
since blind faith is always against reason and Islam calls for reasoning and reflection in the signs of Allah in the universe which will lead to reject all non sense and accept the truth which comes from Allah alone, and those who have control over people thru their religious positions will see Islam as a threat since in Islam there is no priesthood or monarchy for every one is required to seek knowledge and teach as prophet Muhammad said
"the best thing the man can do is to learn and then teach"
so any Muslim can lead the prayer without asking people money for doing that, and there is no man between people and Allah
so Muslims have the right to defend themselves and also they are encouraged to repel the evil with good that may turn the enemies to be close friends, Allah says
"it maybe that Allah will establish love (friendship) between you and those whom you now hold as enemies, for Allah has powers over all things and Allah is oft-forgiving, most merciful" (Koran 60.7)
and there are some rejecters who are peaceful and do not fight against Islam, regarding those Allah says
"Allah forbids you not with regard to those who fight you not for your faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them
for Allah loves those who are just" (Koran 60.8)
in addition Islam gives full protection for those who live under its shariah(laws) for their lives, property and practicing their religion and protecting their places of worship, and they are required to obey and respect Islamic laws as civilized citizens do, if any Muslim or non Muslim violates the law will be punished accordingly for all people are equals before the law, there is no second class citizens in Islam and those non Muslims who live in Islamic State (ruled by Islamic laws) are called the people of covenant means their protection is a covenant of Allah and His messenger Muhammad to them, and the
prophet said "whoever (Muslim) will harm unjustly a non Muslim I will be his opponent in the day of judgment".
when Muslims followed the Koran and the Sunna of prophet Muhammad they set the best example for mankind in how people can live together in peace and harmony with respect and dignity in spite of having different religions
The bloody borders of islam.
I lived for many years in the ARMM reigon of the southern P.I. and got to know first hand the day to day realities of islam. Their isn't a border they share or an area where they live where they are not a serious problem. Doesn't matter what they tell us the koran means what matters is what they do because of those words. Recently Iran executed 50 gay men and women. Under islamic law they were crushed with rocks. When they stop doing that kind of thing we'll talk. 'Isha u allah' means run away really fast
I don't believe the teaching of Jesus any more than I believe the teaching of Mohammad. I believe both Christianity and Islam are responsible for a great deal of sensless violence and the promotion of ignorance.
do you know jenkis khan ? he wasn't muslims nor christian
if you are athiest , then i guarantee you to find some prisoned crimeres who are atheist , violence exist in bad people , not in specific religions
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Neither religion should have a role in government.
i'm sure that you don't realize how really islam protect the rights of other faiths
Quote:
First, political islam has one set of laws for muslims, and another for non-muslims. A government should not distinguish between, or favor, a religion.
it is not
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Second, Political islam as practiced is non-democratic. Even area which claim to be islamic democracies are hardly democracies.
Good to know. However, a lot of the condemnation linked there is from muslims in the West and some leaders in the muslim countries - which is a good thing. But, what I was driving at was if muslims in middle east openly came out on the streets to protest against muslim terrorists? Not government sponsored protests but spontaneous widespread protests across countries - like when some did against the publication of cartoon. You may have sent me the link and I may have missed it...
Good to know. However, a lot of the condemnation linked there is from muslims in the West and some leaders in the muslim countries - which is a good thing. But, what I was driving at was if muslims in middle east openly came out on the streets to protest against muslim terrorists? Not government sponsored protests but spontaneous widespread protests across countries - like when some did against the publication of cartoon. You may have sent me the link and I may have missed it...
the link contains condemns by Muslim Leaders condemns by Specific Muslim Scholars condemns Individual Ordinary Muslims and the condemnaion is from all the world ( in west and in east) beside , you will not find islamic sources justifies the terrorist actions .
the link contains
condemns by Muslim Leaders
condemns by Specific Muslim Scholars
condemns Individual Ordinary Muslims
and the condemnaion is from all the world ( in west and in east)
beside , you will not find islamic sources justifies the terrorist actions .
i'm sorry if our condemnation not satisfying you
You misunderstood me - I did not say islam justifies terrorism or that there are muslims who do not like it. Again, I was wondering if there were mass / spontaneous protests by the common man in the middle east against terrorism - the kind that happened against the cartoon publication? I know there were protests in India by muslims against Mumbai attacks - was wondering specifically about the middle east.
do you know jenkis khan ? he wasn't muslims nor christian
if you are athiest , then i guarantee you to find some prisoned crimeres who are atheist , violence exist in bad people , not in specific religions
While it's true that atheist have committed crimes, rarely do they commit crimes because of atheism. Their atheism is usually unrelated to the crime.
Muslims kill in the name of Islam. They kill BECAUSE of Islam. Were it not for Islam, those planes wouldn't have hit the towers in NYC, for example.
The least religious countries are normally the least violent. Japan, Sweden, etc. The more you religious a country gets, the more likely they are to engage in senseless violence, sometimes within, sometimes with other countries.
But even here, Islam tends to be the most bloody of religions. Rarely can a country safely and peacefully co-exist with an islamic country. The islamic movments will predictable try to expand into their neighbors and overthrow the governments.
There are a very few counter examples.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill
i'm sure that you don't realize how really islam protect the rights of other faiths
This is always the problem when talking with moderate Muslims. They say that Islam really is a peaceful religiong that protects other faiths. That they know the REAL meaning of Islam, and everyone else has got it wrong.
But I only care how Muslims actually act, not what they say the religions is about. So I see the Taliban, the Government in Saudi Arabia, etc., and I'm pretty sure they're not going out of the way to protect the rights of minorities, (religous or otherwise).
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