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1. According to you there is no such thing as a fact? Well if believing that facts exist makes me wrong, then I don't want to be right.
2. It is irrelevant whether I signed a contract or not. A signed contract is most certainly not the only way to offer someone a job. To make that claim is factually untrue.
offered: verb (used with object) 1.
to present for acceptance or rejection; proffer:
He offered me a cigarette.
2.
to propose or put forward for consideration:
to offer a suggestion.
3. to propose or volunteer (to do something):
She offered to accompany me.
4.
to make a show of intention (to do something):
We did not offer to go first.
5.
to give, make, or promise:
She offered no response.
6.
to present solemnly as an act of worship or devotion, as to God, a deity or a saint; sacrifice.
7.
to present for sale:
He offered the painting to me at a reduced price.
4. There was nothing tentative about the job offer I received. I received a job offer that was not tentative. Please see the definition of 'offered' as given by dictionary.com.
I didn't question the existence of the word factually, rather your use of "Factually offering" as if a "Factual offer" was something real.
You're trying to treat this as if it's a real offer. Let's get down to the LEGAL definitions, because if you don't have a legal offer, you don't have anything worth pursuing, and absolutely have no right to compensation.
The "Dictionary.com" definition is irrelevant. What matters is the legal definition.
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Offer
A promise that, according to its terms, is contingent upon a particular act, forbearance, or promise given in exchange for the original promise or the performance thereof; a demonstration of the willingness of a party to enter into a bargain, made in such a way that another individual is justified in understanding that his or her assent to the bargain is invited and that such assent will conclude the bargain.
The making of an offer is the first of three steps in the traditional process of forming a valid contract: an offer, an acceptance of the offer, and an exchange of consideration. (Consideration is the act of doing something or promising to do something that a person is not legally required to do, or the forbearance or the promise to forbear from doing something that he or she has the legal right to do.)
So, let's iron out the "facts" that actually matter.
1) You were not offered a job by the CEO. A text was sent to the cousin in vauge terms that don't meat the definition of offer.
2) No terms were established for the assumed offer.
3) You have not been able to accept the offer
4) No services, nor compensation have been exchanged, nor have promises of either been exchanged between the two parties involved.
The facts are that your "factual offer" doesn't exist as a "legal offer" which is all that matters. That is why no one cares about what you think "factually" happened. It's meaningless.
You are willfully choosing to ignore that factually, he offered me a job. I am not simply going by the word of a friend. Furthermore, even it it was only the word of a friend, this is someone that I trust. He worked for me for some time and I have only good things to say about him professionally and personally. Not to mention his wife was present for the conversation he had with his cousin, but I guess she must be 'in on it' too, right?
In on what?
What you are "factually" ignoring is the fact that you do not have and never did have an official actual offer of employment from someone with authority within this company.
All you have now and have had since you started this thread is a few texts on a friend's cell phone.
Oh well, I'm tired of going round and round this endless carousel ride so I'm tossing my ticket to ride.
I didn't question the existence of the word factually, rather your use of "Factually offering" as if a "Factual offer" was something real.
You're trying to treat this as if it's a real offer. Let's get down to the LEGAL definitions, because if you don't have a legal offer, you don't have anything worth pursuing, and absolutely have no right to compensation.
.
It was/is a real offer. I've proven through the definition posted by dictionary.com that I did in fact receive a job offer from the owner.
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The "Dictionary.com" definition is irrelevant. What matters is the legal definition.
Of course it's relevant. First of all, I never claimed to have a legal offer. I claimed to have a factual offer. Secondly, please prove to me that the definition of a legal offer is different than the definition of a factual offer.
Quote:
So, let's iron out the "facts" that actually matter.
OK.
Quote:
1) You were not offered a job by the CEO. A text was sent to the cousin in vauge terms that don't meat the definition of offer.
Wrong. The owner sent a clear offer. Nowhere in the definition of 'offer' that I provided you does it prescribe that offers made to certain parties are not offers.
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2) No terms were established for the assumed offer.
Wrong.
Quote:
3) You have not been able to accept the offer
Only because he hasn't answered the phone. And really, the fact of acceptance is not necessary to meet the criteria of 'offer'. Even if I declined the offer, it would still be classified as an 'offer'.
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4) No services, nor compensation have been exchanged, nor have promises of either been exchanged between the two parties involved.
So? That's not a criteria of 'offer'. Please see the definition I have provided you.
Quote:
The facts are that your "factual offer" doesn't exist as a "legal offer" which is all that matters. That is why no one cares about what you think "factually" happened. It's meaningless.
Why isn't my factual offer a legal offer? Keep in mind I'm not looking for your legal opinion. I'm asking you to provide me with facts that prove that what you are saying is true. I've already proven via dictionary.com that I did in fact receive a legitimate factual offer. I also offer as evidence that you cannot offer any facts or evidence that prove that the offer is NOT a legal offer.
In on what?
What you are "factually" ignoring is the fact that you do not have and never did have an official actual offer of employment from someone with authority within this company.
.
The owner of the company doesn't have authority to offer me a job? That's your argument? We'll have to agree to disagree about that one. It doesn't sound to me like you have a very good conception of authority.
Quote:
All you have now and have had since you started this thread is a few texts on a friend's cell phone.
1. Not true. My friend and I both also received a verbal offer.
2. I have met the criteria for 'offer' as posted via the dictionary.com definition of 'offer'.
Quote:
Oh well, I'm tired of going round and round this endless carousel ride so I'm tossing my ticket to ride
You are the one trying to argue that an offer is not an offer, not me.
There was no attack, but nice attempt to twist my words.
Let's take a look at what you said-
Quote:
If I say someone is factually ignorant (emphasis mine), does that make it more official sounding?
Well, most here agree that it's not fact, so you might want to change your made up phrase to "fictionally offered".
It sure looks to me like you are indirectly making an insinuation by using the word 'ignorant' in your post. If you were not trying to insinuate that I am ignorant, you sure fooled me.
Ok, you're right. You clearly have a job offer. Go crash his family event so you can shove your acceptance in his face and get your job.
Salary, Benefits, Vacation Policy, responsibilities, you're saying all these things were communicated to you? From what you've said in this thread, none of that was discussed. If anything it sounds entirely like you've been reading way too much into this and you and your friend have become way too pushy about something that was never established.
What are you hoping to get out of this? You're clearly not getting a job. No one on here supports your stance. What advice are you hoping to get?
1) Legally you have no ground to stand on
2) Morally, this guy owes you nothing, he tried to do you a favor and it's not happening. Game over.
3) You can try and ram your views down the throat of the CEO and everyone here, but no one cares. You're position is flawed. There's no obligation based on a conversation like that(none of which have been directly focused at you, you're just a 3rd party tag along to the conversation between the cousins)
The suggestions have been clear, let it go and move on. You have no legal footing for demanding compensation and even if you did, you would just be burning a bridge. So again, what are you hoping for?
So why not just call or email and ask about the job? What do you have to lose?
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