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Of course we all know how our various languages and dialects have evolved over time, but I'm not sure how common it was/is for people to mix languages/words as it seems Jews were inclined. Do we have such cases of Christian-Spanish for example? Buddist-Russian? Hindu-???, but I am beginning to think/learn this was a somewhat more common practice among Jews.
Would I be right about that?
Not really. You are comparing apples and oranges when comparing Jewish experience to Christian or Buddhist experience. Christians and Buddhists alike are neither an ethnos nor a language group. Jews are or were, and certainly were at the time of formation of Yiddish, Judesmo and other "hybrid" languages.
This in no way contradicts rosends' answer, but is my attempt to answer correctly your specific question quoted above.
Not really. You are comparing apples and oranges when comparing Jewish experience to Christian or Buddhist experience. Christians and Buddhists alike are neither an ethnos nor a language group. Jews are or were, and certainly were at the time of formation of Yiddish, Judesmo and other "hybrid" languages.
This in no way contradicts rosends' answer, but is my attempt to answer correctly your specific question quoted above.
Right. Got it. All very interesting to consider for a variety of reasons. Thank you both...
Perhaps to keep from making that "apples vs oranges" mistake, I should have asked if this confluence of language/words was more typical of Judaism followers, vs those of other religions, since all are religions from the most fundamental standpoint. Since Judaism is very difficult to separate from the life of Jewish people, those lines get a little blurry, to me anyway, but I get it. It's complicated and born of a time a long long time ago...
Right. Got it. All very interesting to consider for a variety of reasons. Thank you both...
Perhaps to keep from making that "apples vs oranges" mistake, I should have asked if this confluence of language/words was more typical of Judaism followers, vs those of other religions, since all are religions from the most fundamental standpoint. Since Judaism is very difficult to separate from the life of Jewish people, those lines get a little blurry, to me anyway, but I get it. It's complicated and born of a time a long long time ago...
Judaism isn't like any religion when showing tradition and culture of the bible with the science of the language of the bible. The Hebrew language isn't like any other language in the world. You take the English alphabet and write down all the characters and they mean absolutely nothing. But you take the Hebrew and write a book on each character because there is so much hidden meaning within the letters themselves, and the letters lead to a culture and heritage using idioms and phrases that only a Jew raised in the language could figure out. As I said before, I have read the bible a couple hundred times, heck, probably way more, and after decades of study, I just happened across Jewish idioms and meanings that changed everything I was reading until I realized that not knowing the language and the culture with all it's Sabbaths, it's tradition, rituals and idioms had left me reading a book that I couldn't possibly understand without having been raised in the culture and heritage a Jew is raised in. I learned the comings and goings of the temple and it only re-affirmed how much had been hidden from me because I had never learned the comings and goings of the Temple, and neither could any Christian learn such things unless they were taught by a Jew, or they began studying the oral Torah. God gave Israel things to do, but what they made of these comings and goings is not contained in the bible, and so you read past idioms and appointed prayers that is directly pointing you to a known tradition amongst Jews, and so you say,'' AHH, it must be the feast of Tabernacles that this scripture is talking about because night has become day.''
I didn't even know the greatest things in the bible like Sukkot. How could such a thing be so hidden?
At the feast of Tabernacles there are 3 processions of priests with multitudes following them. One processions goes out to gather the branches shouting in joy, and when they begin to approach the temple it as if a great wind storm has arrived in Jerusalem and in great joy the multitude bring the wind. Another procession goes out to gather the wine with the priests in the lead and a multitude behind them shouting in joy, and they begin their trek to the Temple. A third procession goes out to the pool of peace where they shall draw water from the wells of abundant life, and he who has not seen the great water ceremony could not possibly know joy as this multitude comes shouting in joy bringing the water to the temple and then the congregations circles the alter as a bride who circles her husband and they shout for joy as the wine, and the water are poured into cups upon the alter, and as the branches are stacked against the alter to make a sukkah for the fire, he whi is found keeping the feast of Tabernacles has a covering from the coming fire.
You take each one of the 7 feasts and each have appointed prayers that are spoken on exact days and times, and when you see these prayers, you can just write the date down because to see one, it is begging for a date, and even an hour. There is so much culture and heritage hidden amongst Jews and only Jews, that if a person really wants to understand the Torah, he should grasp the hem of a Jew saying,'' Please father, teach me the ways of your God.''
The Jews are hiding so much truth from the world, lol.
If they did feel a need to show somebody some truth, a Gentile would just take that little piece, twist it into something else, and then use it against Judaism.
The bible is such a big book in itself, but to translate it enough to put all the hidden information down, it would fill a library, it would fill a library on just what I don't know, and not many people study as much as I do, but not having been raised a Jew, never knowing the Oral Torah or the traditions, rituals, appointed prayers with idioms, it seems that I am so far behind that I may never understand as much as I like. I doubt anyone can understand everything because there is just too much information.
You would take 12 people and make each one an expert of a particular subject like incense and the whole family would be given to making incense. Then you make experts of wine, and trees, and so on. With everything you find in nature, you appoint one person to seek out all the knowledge until you find all the truth, and as one big company of people who speak the same language, they have to all come up and add to each other because there is too much information and not enough time to study everything.
It is the biggest book in the world when you add all the hidden information that you don't even know that you don't know.
Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 08-03-2017 at 09:40 AM..
Right. Got it. All very interesting to consider for a variety of reasons. Thank you both...
Perhaps to keep from making that "apples vs oranges" mistake, I should have asked if this confluence of language/words was more typical of Judaism followers, vs those of other religions, since all are religions from the most fundamental standpoint.
But all followers of Judaism are Jewish. The language phenomenon is the experience of a nation exiled for a couple of millenia. There really isn't another, although the experience of overseas Chinese has some similarities. You might try finding out the characteristics of Chinese spoken in various locations, although I guess spoken Chinese isn't one language, anyway. Also note that at some point, as noted by Rosends, Jews weren't speaking speaking Hebrew for mundane purposes, anyway. Altogether an interesting subject, but hard to generalize about, or draw generalized conclusions from, IMO, because no one else has really had the same circumstances.
Quote:
Since Judaism is very difficult to separate from the life of Jewish people, those lines get a little blurry, to me anyway, but I get it. It's complicated and born of a time a long long time ago...
Yes, definitely complicated. And Judaism HAS been separated from the lives of many Jewish people. Not completely, perhaps, and certainly not completely within one generation. But a lot of people are working on it, or even accomplishing it without much work.
Best wishes in your apparent attempt to put it into one coherent picture. It really doesn't look to me like one picture, although there are probably others who could show why I'm wrong.
Not to take lightly all you write, but I can't help but be reminded of this quote as I read about all this that is hidden...
"Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth." -- The Buddha
Again, Buddha takes from the proverbs in the bible.
To understand the sun and the moon, God has made a covenant between the sun, the moon and the earth, that if somebody says that God has given up on Israel, they should walk outside and see if the moon and sun is still in the sky with the stars.
Isaiah 24:23
Then the moon will be abashed and the sun ashamed, For the LORD of hosts will reign on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem, And His glory will be before His elders.
What does one see as he watches the course of the moon and the sun?
The moon will come up and say,'' Where is my beloved?''
The Sun shall hear and say,'' I have already taken my robe off and washed my feet in the ocean's horizon, how can I put my robe back on?''
So she searches for her beloved and finally in the time of a women, the bride comes from her chamber to meet her beloved as they will make their crossing together and she will be hidden in his pavilion, who has ever seen a new moon? The course of the stars and the sun and moon are telling love stories night by night they speak the language of God day by day.
Again, Buddha takes from the proverbs in the bible.
To understand the sun and the moon, God has made a covenant between the sun, the moon and the earth, that if somebody says that God has given up on Israel, they should walk outside and see if the moon and sun is still in the sky with the stars.
Isaiah 24:23
Then the moon will be abashed and the sun ashamed, For the LORD of hosts will reign on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem, And His glory will be before His elders.
What does one see as he watches the course of the moon and the sun?
The moon will come up and say,'' Where is my beloved?''
The Sun shall hear and say,'' I have already taken my robe off and washed my feet in the ocean's horizon, how can I put my robe back on?''
So she searches for her beloved and finally in the time of a women, the bride comes from her chamber to meet her beloved as they will make their crossing together and she will be hidden in his pavilion, who has ever seen a new moon? The course of the stars and the sun and moon are telling love stories night by night they speak the language of God day by day.
Amen, yes they are, and WHO are the "people of the moon"? Peace
But all followers of Judaism are Jewish. The language phenomenon is the experience of a nation exiled for a couple of millenia. There really isn't another, although the experience of overseas Chinese has some similarities. You might try finding out the characteristics of Chinese spoken in various locations, although I guess spoken Chinese isn't one language, anyway. Also note that at some point, as noted by Rosends, Jews weren't speaking speaking Hebrew for mundane purposes, anyway. Altogether an interesting subject, but hard to generalize about, or draw generalized conclusions from, IMO, because no one else has really had the same circumstances.
Yes, definitely complicated. And Judaism HAS been separated from the lives of many Jewish people. Not completely, perhaps, and certainly not completely within one generation. But a lot of people are working on it, or even accomplishing it without much work.
Best wishes in your apparent attempt to put it into one coherent picture. It really doesn't look to me like one picture, although there are probably others who could show why I'm wrong.
Yes, and all followers of Judaism are religious, and all the exile was due to religious conflict, the charge of deicide, which doesn't parallel the story of the Chinese or other cultural integrations very well...
Though I am not a subscriber to all that is fundamentally the source for all that religious conflict, I sure wish I could live in a world where that conflict didn't exist or more importantly would cease to exist, but unfortunately people just can't seem to understand one another in these regards no matter what language(s) they speak!
Yes, and all followers of Judaism are religious, and all the exile was due to religious conflict, the charge of deicide, which doesn't parallel the story of the Chinese or other cultural integrations very well...
Though I am not a subscriber to all that is fundamentally the source for all that religious conflict, I sure wish I could live in a world where that conflict didn't exist or more importantly would cease to exist, but unfortunately people just can't seem to understand one another in these regards no matter what language(s) they speak!
Can I get another amen to that?
Meh. Sounds like hippie speak to me.
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Peace
