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Old 07-02-2012, 12:42 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
3,344 posts, read 2,722,252 times
Reputation: 2215
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95 View Post
To hope for more than the continued Hatfields and McCoys mindless onslaught against all things Kansas in this forum is to hope for a lot.
Yeah, some of the responses seem emotionally driven.
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Old 07-02-2012, 05:44 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
7,559 posts, read 9,169,174 times
Reputation: 3101
Quote:
Originally Posted by MOKAN View Post
Yeah, some of the responses seem emotionally driven.
Possibly. It's no fun watching your home town get unnecessarily economically dismantled just so a suburban county can call themselves a success story.

If Johnson County was not the thorn in the side of KCMO that it has been for the past 40 years, KC might be in the same tier with Minneapolis, Denver etc today rather than fighting to keep from beeing passed up by Indianapolis, Nashville and Charlotte.

I love kcmo and think it's a great city, but the whole state line / joco thing in metro kc makes me pretty much never want to move back there permanently. It's annoying watching metro kc with so much potential waste it away and with all the state line poaching and complete and total lack of cooperation across the region (and yes, the KS side IS the aggressor 99% of the time).

Now KCMO is backed into a corner and has to put all its effort into competing with JoCo rather than figuring out ways to grow the metro in ways other than moving companies around via corporate welfare. Have you seen what kcmo trying to do get freightquote? They are caving and trying to compete with the "state" of Kansas with incentives which is a terrible move, but I'm not sure they have much of a choice.

All the poaching and suburban freeloading off the city and even the fact that you can barely take a city bus across the state line, let alone have any sort of functioning regional bus system (I'm not even talking about regional light rail). yea, I guess it's a bit emotional. KC is a mess as a region (while parts of it do really well generally at the expense of other parts) and it really doesn't have to be that way.

Last edited by kcmo; 07-02-2012 at 05:58 AM..
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Old 07-02-2012, 06:25 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
3,983 posts, read 2,137,847 times
Reputation: 2745
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
Possibly. It's no fun watching your home town get unnecessarily economically dismantled just so a suburban county can call themselves a success story.

If Johnson County was not the thorn in the side of KCMO that it has been for the past 40 years, KC might be in the same tier with Minneapolis, Denver etc today rather than fighting to keep from beeing passed up by Indianapolis, Nashville and Charlotte.

I love kcmo and think it's a great city, but the whole state line / joco thing in metro kc makes me pretty much never want to move back there permanently. It's annoying watching metro kc with so much potential waste it away and with all the state line poaching and complete and total lack of cooperation across the region (and yes, the KS side IS the aggressor 99% of the time).

Now KCMO is backed into a corner and has to put all its effort into competing with JoCo rather than figuring out ways to grow the metro in ways other than moving companies around via corporate welfare. Have you seen what kcmo trying to do get freightquote? They are caving and trying to compete with the "state" of Kansas with incentives which is a terrible move, but I'm not sure they have much of a choice.

All the poaching and suburban freeloading off the city and even the fact that you can barely take a city bus across the state line, let alone have any sort of functioning regional bus system (I'm not even talking about regional light rail). yea, I guess it's a bit emotional. KC is a mess as a region (while parts of it do really well generally at the expense of other parts) and it really doesn't have to be that way.
What your closed eyes, hands-over-your-ears bias blinds you to is that Overland Park/Johnson County has already "passed up" all of the cities mentioned above in many respects that measure life quality. And the last thing it needs or cares about in order to maintain its successful trajectory is a regional bus system.

Most people....people who are going to carry us into the future....simply do not share or aspire to your vision of urban utopia. Crowded urban living with "bus systems" is sooooo.... early 20th century. We have found a better way....and people who dedicate their lives to fighting it will be increasingly marginalized going forward.
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Old 07-02-2012, 07:02 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
7,559 posts, read 9,169,174 times
Reputation: 3101
What quality of life? Is there seriously any desire to live in some subdivision in kansas (or missouri) if it were not near or part of the metropolitan KC area? There is some, sure, but nothing like the demand around cities. It's easy to throw affluent suburbs on a list of most desirable places to live, but they all have one thing in common and it's a biggy.

They are suburbs of a major metro area and they have skewed stats because they are able to keep out lower income, minorities etc and they are able to poach companies from a core city while taking advantage of that core city for everything else that factors into that "quality of life".

If you swap Lenexa with Salina, what happens? Lenexa is no longer so desirable and doesn't have such highly rated "quality of life" any more and Salina will become far more attractive.

Places like Johnson County are simply isolated middle income to affluent demographics with access to big city culture with little to no financial responsibility for said culture. You can live in a metro, but not have to interact with the lesser areas or residents unless by choice. But most people in JoCo want to be near KCMO, even those that bash KCMO.

You can still go to a ball game or museum or concert or broadway play or zoo or fly out of major airport or visit an entertainment district or amusement park as you please, but then you cross county and state lines to avoid any other inconveniences such as crime, race, social issues, school deseg, taxes that fund such culture etc.

You can't tell me that the quality of life of Overland Park would be anything at all without its proximity to kcmo. Believe it or not, it's not easy to get people to move to Kansas, it typically takes a major life event like a job loss to get somebody to even consider moving to Kansas if they have no ties there. Do you read these forums? Most people coming here are not looking for suburban lifestyles. The problem in KC is that you often have to settle for a more suburban lifestyle due to lack of walkable urban neighborhood options.

Two more things. You once again are putting JoCo on a pedestal and treating it as if it's something special. JoCo is a run of the mill suburb that has some great geographic benefits. There are just as nice of suburbs on the MO side that have just as good of quality of life and that also depend on the city for much of their quality of life.

Secondly, and I wills say this again.

I have zero problems with suburbs. None. I live in one in DC. If I were to move to Denver (my first choice of a place to live), I would probably live in a suburb there. Maybe, maybe not. Either way, I would still be very much involved with the urban core on a daily basis. But at least I would know that the suburbs and city are on the same page and I would not feel like I'm turning my back to the city. In Denver, there is normal city vs suburb friction, but nothing like the JoCo/KCMO thing. There is a lot more respect and regional pride.

Suburbs can coexist with a city. The residents can respect the city and the city and suburban leaders can be civil and get along and work together. You see it in KC as Jackson County is pretty normal with it comes to city vs suburbs. There is some friction, but it's not bad. Johnson County is a different animal though.

And cities with vibrant urban cores do work. Spend a week in Boston. It's nothing but a denser version of Brookside/Westport wall to wall. Imagine kcmo looking like Brookside no mater what part of the city you were in. Trust me, if that were the case, a lot of people that have had to settle for JoCo would be in kcmo.

Not everybody wants that suburban lifestyle, but many american cities leave you will little choice. So you go to the next best thing. A close by suburb. Some suburbs have been able to take advantage of their situation better than others via geography, topography, racism or just by aggressively going after an available pool of companies in a nearby core city. Johnson County is simply one of those places.

The quality of life of joco without kcmo would be comical. It wouldn't even exist in the first place. Where would the people and jobs come from? How would the residents entertain themselves etc? There is a reason nearly every county in the state of KS is losing people EXCEPT the ones (really just one) near KC with just a few exceptions. Manhattan area is growing mostly thanks to the fed govt and the base out there for example. Lots of holes in your logic...

Last edited by kcmo; 07-02-2012 at 07:21 AM..
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Old 07-03-2012, 06:56 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
3,983 posts, read 2,137,847 times
Reputation: 2745
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
What quality of life? Is there seriously any desire to live in some subdivision in kansas (or missouri) if it were not near or part of the metropolitan KC area? There is some, sure, but nothing like the demand around cities. It's easy to throw affluent suburbs on a list of most desirable places to live, but they all have one thing in common and it's a biggy.

They are suburbs of a major metro area and they have skewed stats because they are able to keep out lower income, minorities etc and they are able to poach companies from a core city while taking advantage of that core city for everything else that factors into that "quality of life".

If you swap Lenexa with Salina, what happens? Lenexa is no longer so desirable and doesn't have such highly rated "quality of life" any more and Salina will become far more attractive.

Places like Johnson County are simply isolated middle income to affluent demographics with access to big city culture with little to no financial responsibility for said culture. You can live in a metro, but not have to interact with the lesser areas or residents unless by choice. But most people in JoCo want to be near KCMO, even those that bash KCMO.

You can still go to a ball game or museum or concert or broadway play or zoo or fly out of major airport or visit an entertainment district or amusement park as you please, but then you cross county and state lines to avoid any other inconveniences such as crime, race, social issues, school deseg, taxes that fund such culture etc.

You can't tell me that the quality of life of Overland Park would be anything at all without its proximity to kcmo. Believe it or not, it's not easy to get people to move to Kansas, it typically takes a major life event like a job loss to get somebody to even consider moving to Kansas if they have no ties there. Do you read these forums? Most people coming here are not looking for suburban lifestyles. The problem in KC is that you often have to settle for a more suburban lifestyle due to lack of walkable urban neighborhood options.

Two more things. You once again are putting JoCo on a pedestal and treating it as if it's something special. JoCo is a run of the mill suburb that has some great geographic benefits. There are just as nice of suburbs on the MO side that have just as good of quality of life and that also depend on the city for much of their quality of life.

Secondly, and I wills say this again.

I have zero problems with suburbs. None. I live in one in DC. If I were to move to Denver (my first choice of a place to live), I would probably live in a suburb there. Maybe, maybe not. Either way, I would still be very much involved with the urban core on a daily basis. But at least I would know that the suburbs and city are on the same page and I would not feel like I'm turning my back to the city. In Denver, there is normal city vs suburb friction, but nothing like the JoCo/KCMO thing. There is a lot more respect and regional pride.

Suburbs can coexist with a city. The residents can respect the city and the city and suburban leaders can be civil and get along and work together. You see it in KC as Jackson County is pretty normal with it comes to city vs suburbs. There is some friction, but it's not bad. Johnson County is a different animal though.

And cities with vibrant urban cores do work. Spend a week in Boston. It's nothing but a denser version of Brookside/Westport wall to wall. Imagine kcmo looking like Brookside no mater what part of the city you were in. Trust me, if that were the case, a lot of people that have had to settle for JoCo would be in kcmo.

Not everybody wants that suburban lifestyle, but many american cities leave you will little choice. So you go to the next best thing. A close by suburb. Some suburbs have been able to take advantage of their situation better than others via geography, topography, racism or just by aggressively going after an available pool of companies in a nearby core city. Johnson County is simply one of those places.

The quality of life of joco without kcmo would be comical. It wouldn't even exist in the first place. Where would the people and jobs come from? How would the residents entertain themselves etc? There is a reason nearly every county in the state of KS is losing people EXCEPT the ones (really just one) near KC with just a few exceptions. Manhattan area is growing mostly thanks to the fed govt and the base out there for example. Lots of holes in your logic...
Your mindset remains stuck in the 1940s or earlier as revealed with the 1000th repetition of "wouldn't even exist in the first place".

It's 2012 and KCMO needs Overland Park more than Overland Park needs KCMO.

You ask "do I read these forums?" Seriously? As though you or any of the others in the handful of resident JOCO bashers represent anything but a far-fringe eccentric point of view? Most people coming to the KC metro are absolutely looking for suburban lifestyles. That is not even debatable and your contending otherwise simply repeats your denial of reality.

Your endless rants here should have been shut down long ago.
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Old 07-03-2012, 08:09 AM
 
1,767 posts, read 1,666,767 times
Reputation: 500
So much for thinking of KC as one metro.
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Old 07-03-2012, 08:25 AM
 
Location: Volker, Kansas City, MO
12,062 posts, read 18,668,298 times
Reputation: 3618
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95 View Post
Your mindset remains stuck in the 1940s or earlier as revealed with the 1000th repetition of "wouldn't even exist in the first place".

It's 2012 and KCMO needs Overland Park more than Overland Park needs KCMO.

You ask "do I read these forums?" Seriously? As though you or any of the others in the handful of resident JOCO bashers represent anything but a far-fringe eccentric point of view? Most people coming to the KC metro are absolutely looking for suburban lifestyles. That is not even debatable and your contending otherwise simply repeats your denial of reality.

Your endless rants here should have been shut down long ago.
Why?
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Old 07-03-2012, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Madison, WI Metro Area
15,202 posts, read 20,739,481 times
Reputation: 7665
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95 View Post
Your mindset remains stuck in the 1940s or earlier as revealed with the 1000th repetition of "wouldn't even exist in the first place".

It's 2012 and KCMO needs Overland Park more than Overland Park needs KCMO.

You ask "do I read these forums?" Seriously? As though you or any of the others in the handful of resident JOCO bashers represent anything but a far-fringe eccentric point of view? Most people coming to the KC metro are absolutely looking for suburban lifestyles. That is not even debatable and your contending otherwise simply repeats your denial of reality.

Your endless rants here should have been shut down long ago.
Some recent news reports show a demographic shift to urban centres. Here is a wide sampling of sources from across the spectrum that spell it out. Recent 2011 Census data shows cities growing faster than suburbs on a percentage basis as well.

http://www.realtor.com/blogs/2012/03...urban-centers/

Millennials and Boomers are moving back to cities across the country. - Hartford Courant

No McMansions for Millennials - Developments - WSJ

The Millenial Shift


Census: Cities Growing Faster Than Suburbs | Planetizen
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Old 07-03-2012, 08:46 PM
 
3,328 posts, read 4,879,413 times
Reputation: 1829
Search Millinial + cars, and you'll find numerous stories on more and more younger people not getting cars or even licenses. They're in no hurry to at least. Certainly not like my generation (x... I think). There is a major shift back to the city, whether old-timer suburbanites like it or not.

Disclaimer: I live in a suburb. A very nice one. I like it lots. Thankfully, it's not out to put it's host city out of commission.
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Old 07-04-2012, 05:59 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
3,983 posts, read 2,137,847 times
Reputation: 2745
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
Some recent news reports show a demographic shift to urban centres. Here is a wide sampling of sources from across the spectrum that spell it out. Recent 2011 Census data shows cities growing faster than suburbs on a percentage basis as well.

http://www.realtor.com/blogs/2012/03...urban-centers/

Millennials and Boomers are moving back to cities across the country. - Hartford Courant

No McMansions for Millennials - Developments - WSJ

The Millenial Shift


Census: Cities Growing Faster Than Suburbs | Planetizen
Progressives continue to attempt to circulate the myth of a massive return to urban living in an attempt to herd the greatest follower generation in our country's history toward its ideological agenda. It simply is not happening, but for isolated cases and the very young. It is not a long term trend and will not be for the foreseeable future. Why not? Quite simple - people grow up and out of their starry-eyed save the planet years very quickly and know better.

All of these links are to ideological demagoguery and none provide a long-term, widespread factual basis for the contention.

The Myth of the Back-to-the-City Migration | Newgeography.com
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