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Yes, KC has a lot of Art Deco buildings.
You asked some of the differences between the Midwest cities and the Great Plains cities. Well, many cities in the Midwest are in the Great Lakes subregion, which includes: Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, and Minnesota. This has historically been the industrial heartland with lots of manufacturing, heavy industry, and commerce associated with the Great Lakes system. One example would be steel. The Great Lakes region is strategically located in the middle between the Iron Ore reserves of northern MN and the coal deposits of the Appalachians. In the past, many steel mills dominated the industrial portion of the economy in Great Lakes cities like Youngstown, Duluth, Gary, Pittsburgh, etc. The Midwest cities in the Great Lakes subregion were also settled before cities closer to the Great Plains. This means that river commerce was of great importance which came before the railroad age in the middle and end of the 19th century.
Kansas City is at the edge of the Midwest and the edge of the Great Plains. Other cities that are similar in terms of being on the edge of the two regions include: Omaha, Sioux Falls, Lincoln, Topeka, St. Joseph, and Fargo. These cities were more densely settled after the Midwest core and Great Lakes cities were settled. For example: St. Louis is a much older city compared with Kansas City.
In terms of demographics, I tend to focus more on the average age of the population and the population growth rates of the entire metro. In terms of average age, the Great Lakes cities and Midwest core cities are starting to age a little more quickly as they lose younger people to other states. Some examples where this is taking place include many cities in Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, and Wisconsin. The younger cities closer to the Great Plains have had faster population growth rates over the past few decades. However, most of that growth in cities like Omaha, Kansas City, Wichita, Sioux Falls, and Des Moines has been at the expense of the rural areas within those states.
Kansas City is influenced by several different geographical areas as I said before. It has Midwest influences, Great Plains influences, some Ozark influences, and some Upper South influences. Another item that is different about Kansas City compared with Midwest cities in the Great Lakes is the Bible Belt influence. This basically includes most of MO, southern IL, and southern IN. Cities like St. Louis, Cincinnati, and Milwaukee have a sizable if not majority population that is Catholic while KC is more split evenly between Protestant and Catholic. Rural MO leans heavily Baptist outside of the metro areas.
The last item that Kansas City COMPLETELY diverges from compared to Midwest core and Great Lakes cities is climate. Kansas City has a much warmer climate compared with any city in the Midwest. Winters are much warmer and summers are very hot and humid. Kansas City also gets very little snow compared to most cities in the Midwest as well.
Please point out to me the major difference? Our average temperatures are practically the same... MUCH warmer temperature? Our average in July is 90, your average is 89. The average is almost the same. STL gets slightly more snow... wow LOL.
Quote:
Kansas City is at the edge of the Midwest and the edge of the Great Plains. Other cities that are similar in terms of being on the edge of the two regions include: Omaha, Sioux Falls, Lincoln, Topeka, St. Joseph, and Fargo. These cities were more densely settled after the Midwest core and Great Lakes cities were settled. For example: St. Louis is a much older city compared with Kansas City.
Really... you are really going to same KC has more in common with Sioux Falls, Omaha, Lincoln, Topeka, and St. Joseph then midwest cities you listed???? I think you need to check your demographics and climate again for those LOL.... then again you already go those wrong.
Now demographics is average age, etc...
KC:
In the city the population is spread out with 25.4% under the age of 18, 9.7% from 18 to 24, 32.5% from 25 to 44, 20.6% from 45 to 64, and 11.7% who are 65 years of age or older. The median age is 34 years. For every 100 females there are 93.3 males. For every 100 females age 18 and over, there are 89.9 males.
STL:
In the city the population was spread out with 25.7% younger than 18, 10.6% from 18 to 24, 30.9% from 25 to 44, 19.1% from 45 to 64, and 13.7% who were 65 years of age or older. The median age was 34 years. For every 100 females there were 88.6 males. For every 100 females age 18 and older, there were 84.2 males.
Huge difference there... huge....
Cincinnati:
The age distribution was 24.5% under the age of 18, 12.9% from 18 to 24, 31.6% from 25 to 44, 18.7% from 45 to 64, and 12.3% who were 65 years of age or older. The median age was 32 years. For every 100 females there were 89.4 males. For every 100 females age 18 and over, there were 85.6 males.
HOLY CRAP LOOK AT THAT INSANE DIFFERENCE OMG.... now it all makes since you were SO right!
Please point out to me the major difference? Our average temperatures are practically the same... MUCH warmer temperature? Our average in July is 90, your average is 89. The average is almost the same. STL gets slightly more snow... wow LOL.
Really... you are really going to same KC has more in common with Sioux Falls, Omaha, Lincoln, Topeka, and St. Joseph then midwest cities you listed???? I think you need to check your demographics and climate again for those LOL.... then again you already go those wrong.
Now demographics is average age, etc...
KC:
In the city the population is spread out with 25.4% under the age of 18, 9.7% from 18 to 24, 32.5% from 25 to 44, 20.6% from 45 to 64, and 11.7% who are 65 years of age or older. The median age is 34 years. For every 100 females there are 93.3 males. For every 100 females age 18 and over, there are 89.9 males.
STL:
In the city the population was spread out with 25.7% younger than 18, 10.6% from 18 to 24, 30.9% from 25 to 44, 19.1% from 45 to 64, and 13.7% who were 65 years of age or older. The median age was 34 years. For every 100 females there were 88.6 males. For every 100 females age 18 and older, there were 84.2 males.
Huge difference there... huge....
Cincinnati:
The age distribution was 24.5% under the age of 18, 12.9% from 18 to 24, 31.6% from 25 to 44, 18.7% from 45 to 64, and 12.3% who were 65 years of age or older. The median age was 32 years. For every 100 females there were 89.4 males. For every 100 females age 18 and over, there were 85.6 males.
HOLY CRAP LOOK AT THAT INSANE DIFFERENCE OMG.... now it all makes since you were SO right!
I think we will know a LOT more once the 2010 Census comes out
The average age is similar. I will give you that point. However, you are not factoring in out-migration and in-migration patterns in these metro areas. Kansas City has seen a faster overall growth rate compared to St. Louis over the past several decades. St. Louis has also had a slightly weaker economy compared to Kansas City. It is no surprise that St. Louis has a had a lower total growth rate once you factor in a little more out-migration.
Kansas City is much warmer compared to Great Lakes cities like Milwaukee, Chicago, South Bend, and Grand Rapids. Those cities also get more than double the amount of snow in an average winter compared to Kansas City. Kansas City does not even have a winter compared to the Upper Midwest. It is no contest. However, KC is fairly comprable to STL in terms of climate.
I guess you could say KC is situated right in the middle of the country so its cumulative influences come from a variety of geographical areas. However, based on personal experience the city looks to the west and south far more often compared to the east and north. The architecture on the Plaza and the commonly seen stucco housing incorporates more of a southwest influence for example.
I knew several people who live in KC who are middle aged and have never even been to Chicago, yet they have been to Colorado multiple times. You could say I am generalizing, but Texas license plates seem far more common in KC compared to Iowa or Minnesota plates. It could be that Texans find more in common culturally with KC than Upper Midwestern people or it could indicate that KC has a relatively resilient economy compared to other cities.
KC does not have in much in common at all with any Great Lakes city. I have lived in NW Indiana near Lake Michigan. I can tell you it is absolutely nothing like the KC area at all.
KC does not have in much in common at all with any Great Lakes city. I have lived in NW Indiana near Lake Michigan. I can tell you it is absolutely nothing like the KC area at all.
What the hell is your point?
It's been years since I have participated in one of these wonderful KC vs StL debates. I was starting to think there were no longer any StL people out there that have nothing better to do. We found one!
Brickmama,
I love StLouis, I lived there for a while and still go there many times a year.
If you think there is that much difference between KC and StL, you are just not being very honest or are just ignorant.
You really have to look at KCMO from a different perspective. Yes, the city limits are huge. But that has nothing to do with the original city limits and the urban core of the city. KCMO was a major urban city back before the city annexed all that land. The city was only 80 square miles till 1950 and at that time KCMO was well over 550,000.
I know that is really nothing compared to 60 square mile St Louis and their 850,000 residents, but KC was still a very large city at the time and has an urban history that many cities do not like Denver, Phoenix, Atlanta, Dallas etc.
Like StL, KC has been passed up by many cities since then the metro has sprawled and has become a very segregated city.
But the main point is that the city still has a lot of that building stock and density it once had. KCMO is a weird city the way it has so much open land, a dense urban core and the truly bizarre fact that suburban growth for the most part leaped over most of the annexed areas of KCMO to other cities and across the state line.
So while KCMO had 300 square miles, 3/4 of which was vacant, development still didn't occur in KCMO, but elsewhere. Only recently has there been vast growth in KCMO's Northland. Other parts of KCMO are still very rural today though, but as soon as you leave KCMO and enter suburban cities, it becomes developed.
Confused? You should be.
Just know that the density of KCMO south of the river (those 80 square miles) is about 4000-7000 per square mile and if you knew anything about the city, you would already know this.
Kansas City is much warmer compared to Great Lakes cities like Milwaukee, Chicago, South Bend, and Grand Rapids. Those cities also get more than double the amount of snow in an average winter compared to Kansas City. Kansas City does not even have a winter compared to the Upper Midwest. It is no contest. However, KC is fairly comprable to STL in terms of climate.
I guess you could say KC is situated right in the middle of the country so its cumulative influences come from a variety of geographical areas. However, based on personal experience the city looks to the west and south far more often compared to the east and north. The architecture on the Plaza and the commonly seen stucco housing incorporates more of a southwest influence for example.
I knew several people who live in KC who are middle aged and have never even been to Chicago, yet they have been to Colorado multiple times. You could say I am generalizing, but Texas license plates seem far more common in KC compared to Iowa or Minnesota plates. It could be that Texans find more in common culturally with KC than Upper Midwestern people or it could indicate that KC has a relatively resilient economy compared to other cities.
Ok you are saying the weather sets KC apart from other midwest cities, saying KC is not midwest... and yet you say "fairly comparable" to STL weather, when the weather statistically is almost identical... the weather argument just doesn't work. If you want to use it you might as well STL isn't midwest too LOL.
The Plaza archetecture is based on Seville... so I suppose you could consider that south since you see more spanish archetecture south. The old neighborhoods and houses, are not stucco crazy. Brookside, Valentine neighborhood, etc...
Our burbs look like every other burbs in the country with the exception of say Miami.
I would say your generalizing on the plates... I see Iowa and Minnesota plates all the time. I also see Texas often too, and Michigan. With the exception of myself and one other friend who moved to LA the furthest west anyone I know personally has gone is Olathe... yet many of my friends from HS went on to college in Chicago, we have taken road trips to Minneapolis, family of mine moved to Indianapolis, etc...
In my opinion a defining part of a city are as follows:
These things can set cities apart from each other, but it depends the extent of difference... and to be quite honest i've been all over the midwest and with the exception of Chicago not a single city in the midwest seems drastically different... some offer different things, but that doesn't make the people different. A city isn't defined by it's region alone...
LA and SF are very different, and even more different from Portland and Seattle, but they are all west coast. Austin, TX shows that even being in the south, it's region doesn't define it.
At one time my gf and I considered moving to Minneapolis, but we didn't... why? Cuz why pay a higher cost of living for something that isn't that much different. And while it offers some things I want that KC doesn't have, KC offers some things MPLS doesn't have that I really like. Don't get me wrong.... I think Minneapolis is awesome... but in all honesty, it's not a place to move to from KC if your looking for something way different, and I don't think you would find that until Pittsburgh (once again the exception is Chicago)... and the differences between KC and Pittsburgh are not very different then the differences between STL and Pittsburgh.
Sorry.... but I think you have a bit of dislike for KC based on previous post of yours, and just want to let your personal opinion get in the way of facts. I dislike STL mostly cuz of the people and experiences i've always had there, but I don't deny it has a lot of great things about it that I am envious of... and while I do think KC is a lot better, I couldn't at the same time say KC and STL are extremely different either, cuz they're not.
The facts tho show.. you bring up weather, KC and STL weather are basically the same. You bring up German heritage of STL and other midwest cities, facts show KC has a higher percentage of german ancestry then STL. Average ages, etc... I mean are you just gonna keep putting out things until something ends up being right? And some of it of course was, but it didn't make a difference.... I don't go on saying look at the relationship between Chicago and KC cuz our Stockyards were 2nd in size to only Chicago and our Union Station was the 2nd busiest in the nation behind Chicago and both got destroyed at some point (fire for chicago, flooding for KC) ... it doesn't matter, these aren't defining things into a city being more or less midwest.
Ok you are saying the weather sets KC apart from other midwest cities, saying KC is not midwest... and yet you say "fairly comparable" to STL weather, when the weather statistically is almost identical... the weather argument just doesn't work. If you want to use it you might as well STL isn't midwest too LOL.
The Plaza archetecture is based on Seville... so I suppose you could consider that south since you see more spanish archetecture south. The old neighborhoods and houses, are not stucco crazy. Brookside, Valentine neighborhood, etc...
Our burbs look like every other burbs in the country with the exception of say Miami.
I would say your generalizing on the plates... I see Iowa and Minnesota plates all the time. I also see Texas often too, and Michigan. With the exception of myself and one other friend who moved to LA the furthest west anyone I know personally has gone is Olathe... yet many of my friends from HS went on to college in Chicago, we have taken road trips to Minneapolis, family of mine moved to Indianapolis, etc...
In my opinion a defining part of a city are as follows:
These things can set cities apart from each other, but it depends the extent of difference... and to be quite honest i've been all over the midwest and with the exception of Chicago not a single city in the midwest seems drastically different... some offer different things, but that doesn't make the people different. A city isn't defined by it's region alone...
LA and SF are very different, and even more different from Portland and Seattle, but they are all west coast. Austin, TX shows that even being in the south, it's region doesn't define it.
At one time my gf and I considered moving to Minneapolis, but we didn't... why? Cuz why pay a higher cost of living for something that isn't that much different. And while it offers some things I want that KC doesn't have, KC offers some things MPLS doesn't have that I really like. Don't get me wrong.... I think Minneapolis is awesome... but in all honesty, it's not a place to move to from KC if your looking for something way different, and I don't think you would find that until Pittsburgh (once again the exception is Chicago)... and the differences between KC and Pittsburgh are not very different then the differences between STL and Pittsburgh.
Sorry.... but I think you have a bit of dislike for KC based on previous post of yours, and just want to let your personal opinion get in the way of facts. I dislike STL mostly cuz of the people and experiences i've always had there, but I don't deny it has a lot of great things about it that I am envious of... and while I do think KC is a lot better, I couldn't at the same time say KC and STL are extremely different either, cuz they're not.
The facts tho show.. you bring up weather, KC and STL weather are basically the same. You bring up German heritage of STL and other midwest cities, facts show KC has a higher percentage of german ancestry then STL. Average ages, etc... I mean are you just gonna keep putting out things until something ends up being right? And some of it of course was, but it didn't make a difference.... I don't go on saying look at the relationship between Chicago and KC cuz our Stockyards were 2nd in size to only Chicago and our Union Station was the 2nd busiest in the nation behind Chicago and both got destroyed at some point (fire for chicago, flooding for KC) ... it doesn't matter, these aren't defining things into a city being more or less midwest.
/end chapter 1 LOL
I agree that these discussions can be a little silly. The Upper Midwest and Lower Midwest do have some differences that I will not get into. The basic dividing line between the two areas is I-80 IMO.
MPLS is one of the few cities I would move to if I had to relocate to the Midwest again. I like the fact that they have more employment opportunities in my career field, I like all the lakes, I like the well developed trail and bike system, and I like the more progressive nature of the metro area. Also, I can can be close to the Northwoods which really is different compared to the Midwest core area. The Northwoods is primarily wooded with many lakes and little farmland. The culture is more in line with my personality because I have 50% Norwegian hertiage. You are right that MPLS is solidly Midwest, but Duluth is an entirely different ballgame. It has much more of a distinct Canadian flavor, but has a spectacular setting on Lake Superior.
I will tell you why MPLS IS more expensive in terms of COL. It is because the economy there has generally always been quite strong and well rounded. Average salaries there are also some of the highest in the Midwest with the suburban counties ranking higher in income compared to any Midwest metro. Also, most of the school systems tend to rank high there and the outdoor activities are amazing if you are into lakes like I am. MN is also the fastest growing state in terms of percentages since 2000 in the Midwest and Plains regions.
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