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"There are many whose culture is very different. You cannot expect them to fit into your neat little mold. You need to love and appreciate people for their differences and not make judgments based upon cultural bias."
Part of the reason I moved here was for the Southwestern culture - the historic architecture, the fabulous regional foods, the mix of Spanish & English.
Seeing abused dogs chained to trees, trash dumped everywhere, and Walmart mentality isn't really culture and not quite what I envisioned before I moved here. I don't have to love and appreciate anyone who hurts animals and destroys the environment we all share.
Totally agree - some are confusing culture with class (low class) and class doesn't necessarily have anything to do with money. The dog thing really is upsetting. I have this uncle, Guido - I say we form a task force - go out and "talk" to these animal abusers - what do you say??
Excellent points Malamute. There really is no enticing reason to come here, short term, the way there is in Ruidoso or Traverse City. Ruidoso has mountains and as you said, a break from the heat. Traverse City has water. Las Cruces has, well, nothing. It's more of a place to live than it is to visit.
I wouldn't say Las Cruces has nothing going for it -- but it doesn't have the same things Traverse City has -- water and boating and cross country skiing, snowmobiles and hunting, and large cities close by like Detroit, Grand Rapids, Chicago, and many smaller towns where thousands of people want to escape to a place they can drive in a couple to few hours.
Plus Traverse City benefits from middle class flight from the Detroit area.
What Las Cruces does have going for it though isn't all that unique in the SW. There's already Tucson, Flagstaff, Ruidoso, Santa Fe -- all with mountains, all with a SW flavor. There's no "sending" city like Detroit where the people with money want to leave.
Las Cruces does have perfect year-round weather and I do think it's interesting how Arizona grabbed up a lot more retirees by promoting itself as ideal for that when as far as climate, Las Cruces is much better than most of Arizona.
The clip I posted was done by a downtown assn, and certainly focused on tourism, so it's natural that you'd see it as a primarily tourist area. But understand also that from early October thru the end of May tourism isn't much of a factor there at all, and what you see in the vid is mid-summer, when tourism is at it's peak. Regional shopping and entertainment IS what makes that town prosper year round and tourism is an important boost during the summer season.
I was in TC yesterday doing some business before heading back to Mesilla (can't wait to get back!), it was snowing like crazy (over 40 inches so far this winter) and the streets were still busy with local people Christmas shopping, dining, going to the movie, whatever. A downtown based on tourism would be pretty bleak right about now, especially in the Michigan depression.
Tourism does help an area and a small town like TC, there is no doubt. Why else would a little pueblo like Mesilla have so many restaurants and shops? All patronized by local folks, no doubt, but also there to attract and serve the visitor.
When tourists are in Southern New Mexico or Westernmost Texas, or just on their way to Tucson or LA or Santa Fe, where is a natural stop for them? The Crossroads, my friends....right in LC! How many thousands of tourists and potential visitors zip thru on 25 and 10 every day? But, right now, when they stop, what do they see? The same malls with the same chain shops and restaurants they have at home. Big deal...can see that at home, or anywhere else for that matter. If they go downtown to visit a museum or whatever, it probably scares and/or depresses them.
There are strengths in LC. Unless you want to ski or gamble, Ruidoso is pretty cold right now, where LC is still temperate. LC is on the Camino Real, one of the earliest European trade routes in the USA, it has a great mix of cultures, with music, food, art, architecture, on and on. It's in a beautiful river valley. It's up to LC to find it's strengths and grow them..nourish and develop them. I think that's underway, starting with the reopening of Main St. etc. but it will take time and strong support from local people and organizations. People have to discover their pride in Las Cruces.
Traverse City did this by tearing down factories and warehouses and a huge power plant that lined the lakefront and creating a park system in that area. They saw one of their strengths, developed it, and it looks great now. It's major attraction in the summer. The downtown had wonderful old buildings that had been covered over in a stupid attempt to modernize in the 50s and 60s (sound familiar?), and gradually those buildings are being restored as they were originally. When you walk down that main st. you know where you are... it's not a cookie cutter mall in Anywhere USA, and local entrepreneurs operate the vast majority of those storefronts and restaurants. (By the way, the nearest freeway is over 40 miles away.)
I posted the video thing just to show that it can be done.
I'm certainly not putting down Las Cruces because no matter how cute the downtown of Traverse City is, you couldn't get me to live there.
Many of the Traverse City locals do all they can to avoid their downtown especially during tourist season. There's poverty up there because many of the people working in the tourist industry are waiting tables and earning not too much money. There's resentment of the tourists, the heavy traffic they bring, the crowded streets and stores, and the attitude even if there's an appreciation of the money they bring. Many of the locals go to Meijers and Walmart and rarely step foot in their downtown shops -- just like people here.
Maybe downtowns should be geared for tourists -- and of course the locals will stop by on occasion too. Some towns have the water and all that goes with it -- but Las Cruces has constant sunshine, the desert and nice day trips to the mountains. I think many cities and towns with active downtowns rely on tourists to really keep them going. The locals tend to head to Walmart or their nearest HEB.
I'm certainly not putting down Las Cruces because no matter how cute the downtown of Traverse City is, you couldn't get me to live there.
Many of the Traverse City locals do all they can to avoid their downtown especially during tourist season. There's poverty up there because many of the people working in the tourist industry are waiting tables and earning not too much money. There's resentment of the tourists, the heavy traffic they bring, the crowded streets and stores, and the attitude even if there's an appreciation of the money they bring. Many of the locals go to Meijers and Walmart and rarely step foot in their downtown shops -- just like people here.
Maybe downtowns should be geared for tourists -- and of course the locals will stop by on occasion too. Some towns have the water and all that goes with it -- but Las Cruces has constant sunshine, the desert and nice day trips to the mountains. I think many cities and towns with active downtowns rely on tourists to really keep them going. The locals tend to head to Walmart or their nearest HEB.
I'm not sure if you get the highlighted opinion from City Data whiners or what, but I think you'd find, in a close-up look, that the downside you cite is vastly overblown. I think the huge majority of residents realize that if you want to have this, you're going to have to put up with that, and are very happy to make the small trade-offs. This would include the waiters in my former restaurant who would take home 2 to 3 hundred bucks a night (or more) in the tourism season and didn't live in "poverty".
A carpenter I hired last summer was whining about tourists driving slow and getting in his way, until I told him that almost every dollar I was paying him had come to the area in the wallet of a visitor, and without them he wouldn't be working at my house or cashing my check. He had his "Duh" moment and laughed, then said he'd be glad to drive more slowly in that case
Of course people go to Meijers and Wallyworld...the downtown is far more oriented to locally owned and run specialty shops, not vast corporate big boxes and chain restaurants. My point in the last post was that the downtown is active and thriving in a time when there is very little tourism activity...and that's local and regional trade. LC could and should be doing the same thing.
I doubt a Wally would locate there..property is too hard to get, etc. but smaller locally owned businesses could do well once the place turns around.
LC has the weather, the Crossroads, the proximity to other interesting places in the region, museums, history and diverse culture, agriculture (something often overlooked in the tourism mix) and could easily attract more visitors, which, like it or not, are an important part of a strong local economy. A vibrant downtown can act as a focal point to bring it all together, as it has in TC.
I'm not sure if you get the highlighted opinion from City Data whiners or what, but I think you'd find, in a close-up look, that the downside you cite is vastly overblown. I think the huge majority of residents realize that if you want to have this, you're going to have to put up with that, and are very happy to make the small trade-offs. This would include the waiters in my former restaurant who would take home 2 to 3 hundred bucks a night (or more) in the tourism season and didn't live in "poverty".
A carpenter I hired last summer was whining about tourists driving slow and getting in his way, until I told him that almost every dollar I was paying him had come to the area in the wallet of a visitor, and without them he wouldn't be working at my house or cashing my check. He had his "Duh" moment and laughed, then said he'd be glad to drive more slowly in that case
Of course people go to Meijers and Wallyworld...the downtown is far more oriented to locally owned and run specialty shops, not vast corporate big boxes and chain restaurants. My point in the last post was that the downtown is active and thriving in a time when there is very little tourism activity...and that's local and regional trade. LC could and should be doing the same thing.
I doubt a Wally would locate there..property is too hard to get, etc. but smaller locally owned businesses could do well once the place turns around.
LC has the weather, the Crossroads, the proximity to other interesting places in the region, museums, history and diverse culture, agriculture (something often overlooked in the tourism mix) and could easily attract more visitors, which, like it or not, are an important part of a strong local economy. A vibrant downtown can act as a focal point to bring it all together, as it has in TC.
No -- I know they end up realizing the benefits of tourism and how much they depend on tourism dollars -- they still resent them. Not everyone of course but there are people there who prefer the slow times when the tourists are gone. I don't doubt that some restaurants, bars and hotels are good places to earn money but certainly many people there don't benefit that much -- the factory workers for example when they had some factories.
I'm just saying I would prefer a city like Las Cruces over one that's more of a resort town although I think to have the really cool shops and clubs, you have to have tourism. It's like the river walk in San Antonio. It's pretty nice, lots of shops and bars and food places but filled with tourists.
I think Las Cruces could do more as far as attracting tourists and retirees. I think it's more in the golf courses and year round great weather, outdoor activities more than shopping places but maybe it's because I don't like shopping much. I don't see that much appeal in all those stores with things that cost too much -- and Las Cruces already has Old Mesilla which is pretty nice.
No -- I know they end up realizing the benefits of tourism and how much they depend on tourism dollars -- they still resent them. Not everyone of course but there are people there who prefer the slow times when the tourists are gone. I don't doubt that some restaurants, bars and hotels are good places to earn money but certainly many people there don't benefit that much -- the factory workers for example when they had some factories.
I'm just saying I would prefer a city like Las Cruces over one that's more of a resort town although I think to have the really cool shops and clubs, you have to have tourism. It's like the river walk in San Antonio. It's pretty nice, lots of shops and bars and food places but filled with tourists.
I think Las Cruces could do more as far as attracting tourists and retirees. I think it's more in the golf courses and year round great weather, outdoor activities more than shopping places but maybe it's because I don't like shopping much. I don't see that much appeal in all those stores with things that cost too much -- and Las Cruces already has Old Mesilla which is pretty nice.
It's all part of a package...retail, entertainment and restaurants can't raise a town up by themselves, but they provide work opportunities (for local owners as well as employees), increased tax base from improved commercial property and GRT, and are an added amenity to those seeking the golf course, the Museums, or the walk to Dripping Springs or the Rocket Ride to Space or whatever.
Somewhere over 400 people in Traverse City can tell you how much you can rely on manufacturing for jobs...a long-time employer there just put up a sign saying CLOSED. Now that causes real resentment.
LC or anyplace needs manufacturing or other large employers, also as part of the package, but a lot of jobs can go away overnight in a factory or call center. A strong tourism base provides some stability in tough times like we're facing in the coming year. It, too, can fluctuate...some years are better than others.
After living in Orlando and Santa Fe since 2006, I have to say I would definitely choose Las Cruces over either of them. Dealing with hoards of snobbish people downtown--in Santa Fe's case--or self centered con artists--Orlando-- can definitely wear one down after awhile. I'll take relatively light traffic, dry weather, cheap cost of living, good local joints, and nice looking mountains within an hour of a major city any day of the week over overpriced outlet malls, turnpikes, and horrible crime. At least Las Cruces/El Paso and most of New Mexico in general is genuine in the sense that what you see is what you get. If you want something more of what many people consider 'trendy', I suggest moving to Portland, New York, San Fransisco or Boston.
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Now that causes real resentment.
I'd keep Cruces the way it is
