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At first I would have said no way....not on LI with LIPA's silly "delivery charge"
But, quick and dirty math for JUST the electricity alone (and not the $2K charger)
This is from the Nissan website
Q: Since the Nissan LEAF™ solely runs on electricity, would charging from home dramatically increase my electricity bill?
A: Based on a US average of $0.11/kWh, a full charge will cost about $2.75. It could be even less, if your area has time-of-use rates and you charge at off-peak hours.
LIPA rates are about 0.21/kWh (almost double)...so over $5.50 per charge. I believe a charge gets you 100 miles?
So, if you commute 100 miles a day, you'd pay about $27-$28 a week. At 3.50 a gallon, thats the equivalent of 8 gallons per week.
Maybe it isn't so bad? I have a 45 mile round trip commute and fill up about every 10 days at about $60. Unless I screwed up the math, in my case the costs seem about equal.
I looked at that too.
Do you really think LIPA is going to keep charging the same rate for "filling up" cars?
I don't have much faith in them since they promised that dumping LILCO for them would get us out of being the highest electricity rate in the nation. They lied. Bigtime.
The first thing they will complain about if the electric car catches on is the strain on their resources, as so many people are using electricity instead of gasoline.
And that will turn into a separate meter arrangement for the car charger docking station, NATURALLY at a much higher rate than the plain old "household" electricity costs us.
Anyway it takes the car a long time to "charge up" -- ~7 hours at 220/240V (depending on amperage), about 20 hours at 110/120V. Sure you can plan on doing it overnight but what if there is an emergency and you need the car?
The LEAF is not for me for many reasons, but mainly because I don't trust LIPA.
When enough people start using these and they begin to further strain the infrastructure, the need for additional generation will be funded by the ratepayers.
And as per Alexei's calculations, you're not saving ANYTHING on LI with the rates the way they are now. So why bother?
If you take in the cost of purchasing and installing the charging dock, it's a net loss. The website for the LEAF says:
Quote:
The average estimated cost of a standard home charging dock installation in a typical new home is approximately $2,000 plus tax and license fees. Federal tax credits may offset a portion of the costs.
The home charging dock will require a 220/240V 40 amp dedicated circuit connected to a breaker. The charging dock will need to be hard-wired directly to the circuit by a certified electrician.
Don't forget the cost of the electrician's visit!
Sure maybe it's great for the rest of the country who pays an "average" of 11 cents per kwh. THEY will be driving at half the cost of gasoline. NOT us.
Even for "green living" purposes ... as Interlude pointed out ... coal is a major way of generating electricity, so the LEAF is not even all that green either.
My rate here in Niagara falls is 6.2 cent per KW/Hr. At that rate I could save some money. All our electricty here is from water power, so it's a pretty green idea.
And as per Alexei's calculations, you're not saving ANYTHING on LI with the rates the way they are now. So why bother?
If you take in the cost of purchasing and installing the charging dock, it's a net loss. The website for the LEAF says:
Don't forget the cost of the electrician's visit!
Sure maybe it's great for the rest of the country who pays an "average" of 11 cents per kwh. THEY will be driving at half the cost of gasoline. NOT us.
Even for "green living" purposes ... as Interlude pointed out ... coal is a major way of generating electricity, so the LEAF is not even all that green either.
It would be free for me, I'm an electrician. Isn't that portion of the job covered in the docking station installation anyway? The overall cost is hypothetical, as the kwh rate in the model doesn't include your increased delivery charges, taxes, fees, etc...much like your water bill, electric rates go up as usage goes up. It would take a much more thorough analysis to see the benefit. And these cars are not going to run like gas powered ones. You need a little more ooomph to keep up with the LIMAs. I compare it to switching from oil to gas heat...you will always see a savings on paper, but you have to lay out money up front and wait for the net. It's when you see the difference (if ever) that counts. And luxury, to me, is always worth paying a little extra. In this case the luxury is the power of a gas engine.
The Volt is a cooler concept IMO. Battery powered up to 35 miles or so, then a gas engine to extend you range to over 300 miles. If you don't drive far, you rarely have to use gas. If you have to, you don't run out of power. Best of both worlds.
The Volt is a cooler concept IMO. Battery powered up to 35 miles or so, then a gas engine to extend you range to over 300 miles. If you don't drive far, you rarely have to use gas. If you have to, you don't run out of power. Best of both worlds.
I'm on my second Prius. I regularly average 48mpg on a tank of gas. Occaisonaly I get as much as 52mpg.
I looked into all green vehicle options before I traded my first Prius in for a new one.
I don't want to give lipa anymore business
I want to have a long travel range if needed
I don't want to pay double the price of a regular car
I want reliable technology
That is why I went with another Prius.
I think the leaf will do very well in other areas with Lower electric rates
If you look at the math that alexei27 provided, it works out to about 5.5 cents of electricity per mile with the LEAF.
A 50mpg prius will cost 7 cents per mile @ $3.50 per gallon. The LEAF is not practical when you consider it easily costs $5000 more upfront (with charging station) for base model, even after the $7500 federal rebate. I think it's going to be a major fail considering the price point.
Other things to consider: owning a leaf could shield you from skyrocketing gas prices. Solar panels are becoming cheaper and cheaper -- if you have the capital or ability to borrow at very low costs, a solar system to offset the higher electric use would make a lot of financial sense. There are still rebates available for solar installations and LIPA even has a $500 rebate if you buy a Volt (why wasn't Volt included in this poll??) or LEAF.
All in all, I don't think it makes sense at the current time to invest in a LEAF. You're better off going with a Prius or even a Volt -- where you still have the convenience of being able to use gas and not worry about long-range trips. I'd even take a Nissan Versa over the LEAF. It's half the price @ $14k (after LEAF rebate) and gets over 30mpg, for basically the same type of car. KellyFG pretty much summed up the major reasons it's tough to justify shelling out for this type of EV.
Also, NY's electricity comes from these sources in the chart below (from 2003, so solar may be a larger source today): And why are we still using OIL to generate 12% of our electricity in NY !?
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexei27
At first I would have said no way....not on LI with LIPA's silly "delivery charge"
But, quick and dirty math for JUST the electricity alone (and not the $2K charger)
This is from the Nissan website
Q: Since the Nissan LEAF™ solely runs on electricity, would charging from home dramatically increase my electricity bill?
A: Based on a US average of $0.11/kWh, a full charge will cost about $2.75. It could be even less, if your area has time-of-use rates and you charge at off-peak hours.
LIPA rates are about 0.21/kWh (almost double)...so over $5.50 per charge. I believe a charge gets you 100 miles?
So, if you commute 100 miles a day, you'd pay about $27-$28 a week. At 3.50 a gallon, thats the equivalent of 8 gallons per week.
Maybe it isn't so bad? I have a 45 mile round trip commute and fill up about every 10 days at about $60. Unless I screwed up the math, in my case the costs seem about equal.
No, because I don't think the .gov should be subsidizing peoples purchases.
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Better off with a prius
!?
