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Housing costs are high because school taxes make up over 50% of the tax bill that drives people's mortgage payments up. Lower those costs to make everything more affordable and you may get more of the undesirables (not just illegals) you hate so much moving in around you. It's not going to work as simply as you think.
Well I remember when LI was cheaper there were less undesirables. To me, it seems there is a direct correlation between the rising costs of housing and an increase in illegal housing, which draws in more of the undesirables. Because housing is so expensive, more rich move here and these are folks that often use the illegals for landscaping (stuff middle class LI'ers did on their own).
Getting housing costs down would be two-fold. School taxes need to be brought under control. There are several ways to do that, one of which is consolidation (ie larger districts). When you look at many areas in NJ, for instance, school districts are often based on the Township, sometimes County. I personally think Nassau as well as Suffolk should also form a County Library system (similar to what Ocean County has).
But that would reduce the highly segregated setup the current LI school setup currently has. Many high ranking school districts would be upset they'd have to share their facilities with less wealthy schools.
But consolidation would mean fewer administrators to pay.
The undesirable element is here not because of low housing costs, but because of the failure of the governments to enforce housing codes and quality of life issues. Most homebuyers are not undesirables, it is renters, mostly those of illegal apartments, that bring the problems.
Having more legal rentals that are affordable and require background checks to weed out ex-cons,etc would help too.
When the supply of better areas starts to increase due to lower school taxes, better property management, and code enforcement, more and more middle class people will be able to afford LI again.
Surely the current system isn't working, as decent neighborhoods keep becoming more scarce, driving up what remains to the stratosphere.
When I visit Ocean County in NJ I am reminded of the way LI used to be. Mostly middle class, safe neighborhoods with few areas to avoid. The difference of course is that it is further from NYC, comperable to Central Suffolk I guess. But Ocean remains cheaper and has a much better quality of life. I will admit public transportation is still better on LI, whereas in Ocean there is no rail (except Point Pleasant which is limited) and alot of areas not served by buses. But the population density is much lower.
Well I remember when LI was cheaper there were less undesirables. To me, it seems there is a direct correlation between the rising costs of housing and an increase in illegal housing, which draws in more of the undesirables. Because housing is so expensive, more rich move here and these are folks that often use the illegals for landscaping (stuff middle class LI'ers did on their own).
Getting housing costs down would be two-fold. School taxes need to be brought under control. There are several ways to do that, one of which is consolidation (ie larger districts). When you look at many areas in NJ, for instance, school districts are often based on the Township, sometimes County. I personally think Nassau as well as Suffolk should also form a County Library system (similar to what Ocean County has).
But that would reduce the highly segregated setup the current LI school setup currently has. Many high ranking school districts would be upset they'd have to share their facilities with less wealthy schools.
But consolidation would mean fewer administrators to pay.
The undesirable element is here not because of low housing costs, but because of the failure of the governments to enforce housing codes and quality of life issues. Most homebuyers are not undesirables, it is renters, mostly those of illegal apartments, that bring the problems.
Having more legal rentals that are affordable and require background checks to weed out ex-cons,etc would help too.
When the supply of better areas starts to increase due to lower school taxes, better property management, and code enforcement, more and more middle class people will be able to afford LI again.
Surely the current system isn't working, as decent neighborhoods keep becoming more scarce, driving up what remains to the stratosphere.
When I visit Ocean County in NJ I am reminded of the way LI used to be. Mostly middle class, safe neighborhoods with few areas to avoid. The difference of course is that it is further from NYC, comperable to Central Suffolk I guess. But Ocean remains cheaper and has a much better quality of life. I will admit public transportation is still better on LI, whereas in Ocean there is no rail (except Point Pleasant which is limited) and alot of areas not served by buses. But the population density is much lower.
Having been to Ocean County recently, I'd have to say you're right about it having the flavor of LI before it's number one cash business became property taxes. However, I remember Ocean County and Toms River in the late 80s and 90s and it seemed more prosperous back then. Fewer defunct businesses I suppose, though, we here on LI have huge swaths of empty real estate, be they residential, commercial or business.
And that is your subjective opinion which you are entitled to. But to imply in your last post that 400k will only get you a lower performing school district like Middle Country, or Pat Med etc. is complete and total nonsense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by peconic117
Smithtown, Wantagh, Plainedge, Huntington, Babylon all had houses in the 400k range in good school districts from a quick search in addition to what you posted. Im sure there are a ton more in other areas. No one said you were going to get a shiny new plastic McMansion for that price, but you aren't getting a shack either, some areas (particularly suffolk) you will obviously get more for 400k than others. Regardless, you are getting into a well performing district for 400k. My argument was simply implying that at 400k you were looking at bad to lower performing districts is nonsense. And it is.
I didn't imply anything... "In my opinion, the 400k today is not nearly worth what you get." I stated that it wasn't worth 400k, not that you can't find something. You're entitled to disagree with the value proposition.
You seem to think the towns listed have value at 400k and then throw your dig in at a "new plastic McMansion". I owned homes on LI built 30-40 years ago and did plenty of my own handyman stuff over the years. I saw behind the walls. I also built a brick house down here and oversaw every phase of construction. My home down here is solid and energy efficient. Your 400k home in Smithtown will look like something out of a 70s sitcom right down to the stick on paneling, retro tiny kitchen, and have horrible energy efficiency (all while paying ~12k in taxes). I mean I like Smithtown schools, but sheesh - where do I get the money to update... everything?
You can attempt to wow us with mlsli.com links if you want... but let's be honest, if it's sitting on MLS not moving there's a reason.
I didn't imply anything... "In my opinion, the 400k today is not nearly worth what you get." I stated that it wasn't worth 400k, not that you can't find something. You're entitled to disagree with the value proposition.
You seem to think the towns listed have value at 400k and then throw your dig in at a "new plastic McMansion". I owned homes on LI built 30-40 years ago and did plenty of my own handyman stuff over the years. I saw behind the walls. I also built a brick house down here and oversaw every phase of construction. My home down here is solid and energy efficient. Your 400k home in Smithtown will look like something out of a 70s sitcom right down to the stick on paneling, retro tiny kitchen, and have horrible energy efficiency (all while paying ~12k in taxes). I mean I like Smithtown schools, but sheesh - where do I get the money to update... everything?
You can attempt to wow us with mlsli.com links if you want... but let's be honest, if it's sitting on MLS not moving there's a reason.
Plastic McMansion is not a dig, it's just how they look to me. I grew up in one, Florida is probably the assembly line McMansion Capitol of the world. My parents did the expat thing just as you did when i was a kid.
Last edited by peconic117; 10-02-2015 at 09:51 AM..
Oh yes ! Nice pics and point made ! We just moved out of Long Island by choice and are finding how exciting it is to search for a new home . What your money can't buy is so exciting !
I don't want to leave but eventually may be given no choice. Services I depend on keep getting cut and I am forced to live in a community full of illegals. And the open space and Pine Barrens I love are being destroyed all over LI. If you are rich Long Island can be great, since you can afford a home in a nice area without illegals, get good trains, and access to most of the island. But for the rest of us who have to deal with these invaders being dumped in our communities, our transportation being cut, we aren't enjoying LI so much.
I have family here, which is part of the reason I still remain. However I am getting close to reaching my breaking point. The Long Island I grew up with and have fond memories of is slowly withering away. Our transportation is getting worse, little open space is being preserved, and the quality of life is getting worse. It is a shame that we cannot seem to get our Government to serve us, instead they serve themselves. There are better places to live, esp for those of us who aren't rich.
It doesn't have to be this way Long Island. Get housing costs under control, preserve what open space and woods we have left, and improve our transportation network. And close the door to the illegals, shut down where they live, give them nothing but a one way ticket out. Caught hiring them and face years in jail. Things would turn around, trust me!
"And the open space and Pine Barrens I love are being destroyed all over LI".
It absolutely heartbreaking the way Long Island has been overdeveloped.
And I am glad you mentioned the Pine Barrens and how it is being destroyed. For the past year and a half I have been working out in Coram and traveling around the local areas like Medford, Yaphank and Manorville. You still see plenty of wooded land and even the occasional farm. And your like - this is great! This is the way suburbs should be, partly built up but also part parkland or farmland.
But then you notice when you drive along, all the woodland has signs like "For Sale 5 acres zoned commercial". Or "For Sale 10 acres zoned residential". And some of the farms have been abandoned awaiting the developers.
Its all going to be developed. Its ashame because apparently the Town of Brookhaven has not learned from the mistakes of Nassau County and Western Suffolk.
"And the open space and Pine Barrens I love are being destroyed all over LI".
It absolutely heartbreaking the way Long Island has been overdeveloped.
And I am glad you mentioned the Pine Barrens and how it is being destroyed. For the past year and a half I have been working out in Coram and traveling around the local areas like Medford, Yaphank and Manorville. You still see plenty of wooded land and even the occasional farm. And your like - this is great! This is the way suburbs should be, partly built up but also part parkland or farmland.
But then you notice when you drive along, all the woodland has signs like "For Sale 5 acres zoned commercial". Or "For Sale 10 acres zoned residential". And some of the farms have been abandoned awaiting the developers.
Its all going to be developed. Its ashame because apparently the Town of Brookhaven has not learned from the mistakes of Nassau County and Western Suffolk.
Chances are some of those properties belonged to Toussie.
The whole Pine Barrens credits is a joke. Developers, like Toussie, moaned that they couldn't get the value of their credits (at the time of the Pine Barrens Act) years later when property values dropped. (Welcome to the real world.) They also used those credits to build housing which they geared toward minority families in the city, showing them a wonderful suburban setting, but then developing the homes in run down areas of Medford and Coram. This was coupled with a mortgage scam. Toussie was supposed to do some federal time for these actions.
For me it's not so much the cost. Yes, it's overpriced. For me, if I'm going to dish out all this money, I don't want to feel trapped on the ass end of an island with ocean to my right and the Great Wall of Traffic to my left. We have one electric utility, one gas company, and one cable company (my complex luckily is new and has a FiOS internet hookup, but we'll never have FiOS television; for the record I don't hate Cablevision but when they're the only provider you really feel that they don't give a **** about you). My family lives in CT and I'm tired of driving for over two hours or being a slave to high ferry fares for what is literally the same amount of travel time. It's almost an hour and a half to JFK, and over 90 minutes to the City. My mother in law lives in Center Moriches and when we leave from there, it's miserable trying to travel anywhere that isn't Riverhead.
For what we pay here, I want out of Suffolk and I want to go to Westchester or at the very least Western Nassau/Eastern Queens. I'm just not happy here.
^ your taxes will probably double moving from Suffolk to there.
Probably, but it would definitely give me a better state of mind, it's hard for me to not feel 'trapped' here.
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