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Good plan with the mixed use with residental but in the wake of Death by McMansion Mt Sinai's got issues.
Talk about the fox watching the hen house.
Shame on the community for not demanding better leadership.
Thats what happens when everybodys working two jobs to meet 20k a year in property taxes.
Sad.
crookhaven
Good idea at face value, but what "main st" area has a big box discount store in it? Huntington? Sayville? Islip? Port Jefferson? Hmmm, none that are viewed as community centers that I can think of. Nice try.
Good idea at face value, but what "main st" area has a big box discount store in it? Huntington? Sayville? Islip? Port Jefferson? Hmmm, none that are viewed as community centers that I can think of. Nice try.
I guess its better than just having a big box.
Cant retrofit a main street.
Thats what happens when a Town is really more of an area.
I promise I will add my "Part 2" to this thread at some point....just been way too busy the last few days. I've been reading it, though, and there have been a surprising number of excellent points made amid the really silly "the sky is falling..." stuff. Keep up the good work!
Yup, that pretty much sums it up. Compare Long Island with New Jersey's suburbs. New Jersey has many limited access highways (no traffic lights). Long Island has some parkways, one major expressway (LIE), and just a few limited access highways almost entirely in Suffolk.
You go to NJ you see how many of the major shopping centers and commercial areas are close to highways, but on LI they are near overcrowded local roads. In NJ you have more areas of open space intermixed with development. On LI most of the open space is on the east end.
With transit...in New Jersey you have NJ Transit commuter rail, commuter (express) bus, and local bus. They are often timed to connect with eachother and people can use NJ Transit rail tickets on buses in some places.
On Long Island, we have the LIRR, local bus service, and Hampton Jitney (which skips most of LI and just goes between Manhattan and the East End).
LIRR and local buses do not connect and do not honor LIRR tickets,ever.
The problem is NJ developed mostly after Long Island. They saw what went wrong on LI and avoided alot of it.
They made sure when they built their malls, commercial areas, and residential areas that they were close to highways (I consider a highway a road without traffic lights). They made sure they had the transportation network work with eachother, and the NJ Transit brand has been extremely successful with that.
They also made sure land was preserved for drinking water...hence the many reserviors there. We built on top of our water supply....is it any wonder cancer rates are so high?
Think about it, if you're traveling from NYC, you have to travel 35 miles east onto Long Island before you see the first Pitch Pine, but only about 20 miles SW into NJ to see the first Pitch Pine.
Traveling out of NYC, you only have to travel either 15 miles north or 12 miles south into SW Staten Island (yes...S.I.) to see your first White Tailed Deer. On Long Island...that'll be 40 miles.
I've taken the bus along route 9 into NJ and am suprised at how fast things get rural. Less than an hour and I'm in Old Bridge and there's pine barrens!
Unfortunately Long Island is a great example of the result of poor planning.
Had LI been planned properly, things would have been much better.
Imagine if Glen Cove road, Jericho turnpike, Route 25a, Hempstead turnpike and Old Country road were designed as highways. Imagine that Sunrise highway was a true highway, with no lights. Route 135 should have run to Oyster Bay. And route 107 should have been a 4 lane highway instead of the choked 2 lane road it is north of Jericho turnpike.
Imagine that vast areas of land on the north shore, were preserved instead of being built upon? The Henpstead Plains used to dominate Nassau county, now only a tiny portion remains and is struggling to survive, near Nassau community college. Imagine if Eisenhower park were not a golf course or atheltic fields and instead a more undeveloped park?
How about having commuter buses running along our highways to park and rides like in NJ?
Unfortunately it's too late for most of Long Island. I love how these north shore ppl say no to the highways or improved transit, fearing it will bring overdevelopment. The overdevelopment came anyway. The north shore of Nassau is a classic example of that. There's hardly any "open space" up there, unless you consider McMansons open space.
I frequently see deer when I visit Staten Island, a borough of NYC! Yet I've never seen a deer in Nassau. The SW part of SI is more like Suffolk county.
There's even a small pine barrens in there.
And now I see the same stuff happening in Suffolk. I remember route 347 used to have lots of woods. Now I see more McMansions and strip malls. Same thing in Riverhead. Will we ever learn?
Or is my future going to be in New Jersey? It sure seems like it since I'm pretty fed up with what's happening. All the traffic...none of the infrastructure....or open space.
Yup, that pretty much sums it up. Compare Long Island with New Jersey's suburbs. New Jersey has many limited access highways (no traffic lights). Long Island has some parkways, one major expressway (LIE), and just a few limited access highways almost entirely in Suffolk.
You go to NJ you see how many of the major shopping centers and commercial areas are close to highways, but on LI they are near overcrowded local roads. In NJ you have more areas of open space intermixed with development. On LI most of the open space is on the east end.
With transit...in New Jersey you have NJ Transit commuter rail, commuter (express) bus, and local bus. They are often timed to connect with eachother and people can use NJ Transit rail tickets on buses in some places.
On Long Island, we have the LIRR, local bus service, and Hampton Jitney (which skips most of LI and just goes between Manhattan and the East End).
LIRR and local buses do not connect and do not honor LIRR tickets,ever.
The problem is NJ developed mostly after Long Island. They saw what went wrong on LI and avoided alot of it.
They made sure when they built their malls, commercial areas, and residential areas that they were close to highways (I consider a highway a road without traffic lights). They made sure they had the transportation network work with eachother, and the NJ Transit brand has been extremely successful with that.
They also made sure land was preserved for drinking water...hence the many reserviors there. We built on top of our water supply....is it any wonder cancer rates are so high?
Think about it, if you're traveling from NYC, you have to travel 35 miles east onto Long Island before you see the first Pitch Pine, but only about 20 miles SW into NJ to see the first Pitch Pine.
Traveling out of NYC, you only have to travel either 15 miles north or 12 miles south into SW Staten Island (yes...S.I.) to see your first White Tailed Deer. On Long Island...that'll be 40 miles.
I've taken the bus along route 9 into NJ and am suprised at how fast things get rural. Less than an hour and I'm in Old Bridge and there's pine barrens!
Unfortunately Long Island is a great example of the result of poor planning.
Had LI been planned properly, things would have been much better.
Imagine if Glen Cove road, Jericho turnpike, Route 25a, Hempstead turnpike and Old Country road were designed as highways. Imagine that Sunrise highway was a true highway, with no lights. Route 135 should have run to Oyster Bay. And route 107 should have been a 4 lane highway instead of the choked 2 lane road it is north of Jericho turnpike.
Imagine that vast areas of land on the north shore, were preserved instead of being built upon? The Henpstead Plains used to dominate Nassau county, now only a tiny portion remains and is struggling to survive, near Nassau community college. Imagine if Eisenhower park were not a golf course or atheltic fields and instead a more undeveloped park?
How about having commuter buses running along our highways to park and rides like in NJ?
Unfortunately it's too late for most of Long Island. I love how these north shore ppl say no to the highways or improved transit, fearing it will bring overdevelopment. The overdevelopment came anyway. The north shore of Nassau is a classic example of that. There's hardly any "open space" up there, unless you consider McMansons open space.
I frequently see deer when I visit Staten Island, a borough of NYC! Yet I've never seen a deer in Nassau. The SW part of SI is more like Suffolk county.
There's even a small pine barrens in there.
And now I see the same stuff happening in Suffolk. I remember route 347 used to have lots of woods. Now I see more McMansions and strip malls. Same thing in Riverhead. Will we ever learn?
Or is my future going to be in New Jersey? It sure seems like it since I'm pretty fed up with what's happening. All the traffic...none of the infrastructure....or open space.
I love the Idea about the Park and Ride busses, but when I think failure... I think Rt 17 in NJ.
There are local routes in NJ that make me long for Jericho Turnpike.
6 million curb cuts ,local and express lanes with inadequate signage and my personal favorite...jug handles.
I would argue that Northern Jersey is WAY worse than LI.
Even in NYC you can surf the Rockaways
20 Miles out of NYC youre on Fire Island which is the only place I can think of thats automobile free.
Dont get me wrong, LIs infratructure was built for 1960 but I thank God everyday I dont have to live in Jersey.
The swamplands are quite breathtaking this time of year....literally.
crookhaven
Last edited by Crookhaven; 09-07-2008 at 05:55 AM..
Northern NJ is awful, Route 17 backs up for hours just for mall traffic on a random Saturday afternoon. For all the highways and trains they have, I just dont understand the traffic.
LI should have taken notes from Westchester. As crowded as Lower Westchester is, and as old as the infrastructure is, its a pretty efficient place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crookhaven
I love the Idea about the Park and Ride busses, but when I think failure... I think Rt 17 in NJ.
There are local routes in NJ that make me long for Jericho Turnpike.
6 million curb cuts ,local and express lanes with inadequate signage and my personal favorite...jug handles.
I would argue that Northern Jersey is WAY worse than LI.
Even in NYC you can surf the Rockaways
20 Miles out of NYC youre on Fire Island which is the only place I can think of thats automobile free.
Dont get me wrong, LIs infratructure was built for 1960 but I thank God everyday I dont have to live in Jersey.
The swamplands are quite breathtaking this time of year....literally.
Northern NJ is awful, Route 17 backs up for hours just for mall traffic on a random Saturday afternoon. For all the highways and trains they have, I just dont understand the traffic.
LI should have taken notes from Westchester. As crowded as Lower Westchester is, and as old as the infrastructure is, its a pretty efficient place.
Yes Westchester is well planned as well, where else can you be in an urban area full of commercial activity (White Plains) and be in a beautiful woodlands with deer just a few miles away (Liberty park, Saxon woods).
Northern NJ is messy, but I was referring more toward Old Bridge, Matawan,etc.
Yes Westchester is well planned as well, where else can you be in an urban area full of commercial activity (White Plains) and be in a beautiful woodlands with deer just a few miles away (Liberty park, Saxon woods).
Northern NJ is messy, but I was referring more toward Old Bridge, Matawan,etc.
Apples to apples would be Northern NJ to Nassau.
Id take Nassau hands down.
I imagine it would be easier to commute to Philly from Old Bridge.
Totally different animal.
As for White Plains....they got it right.
I imagine we will se a few more "Cities" on Long Island over the next few decades.
I would like to see an improved LIRR with a high speed train that goes from different points in eastern suffolk to manhattan. Trains that are on rails and raised above existing trains so there's nothing in their path and can travel at 80-90 MPH. If it only took 25 minutes to get into manhattan from ronkonkama, or 35 to get to manhattan from riverhead (maybe the train would have to go faster, i dont know the exact distance), those areas of eastern suffolk can grow just like areas in nassau where the commute is only 30 minutes into manhattan.
Why? Why wouldnt you want Long island to remain beautiful and green. I am all for updated transportation along existing lines (I mean we pay enough taxes to have anything we want) Why cant we have better trains and better mass transit? why cant we have better highways and incentive programs for people to drive together instead of by themselves... the answer is we do. Nobody cares! everyone wants to drive there hummer to dairybarn. thats just the way it is...
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