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Yeah, the train definitely slows down in Highland Pk due to the fact that it is going right thru a residential area where even some streets don't have train crossing rails. I wish the city had dropped the train below street level with street over passes. I think the Gold Line will pick up good speed from Pasadena into Arcadia\ Duarte\ Azusa since it will parallel the 210 freeway.
I know some transit activities like to complain about this extension because they view it as going to far out into the suburbs, but at least it will still go through consistently dense areas. If you think the Gold Line extension goes out too far, take a look at BART up here in the Bay Area. Pure heavy rail extended 40+ miles out from downtown SF (Pittsburg/Bay Point- really??). Now that's waste if you ask me.
Let's not be too quick to pat ourselves on the back. The last passenger trains to traverse the Gold Line corridor was back in January 1994 when Amtrak ran its final Southwest Chief trains and the line was still a Santa Fe railroad route.
Metrolink offered to take over rail service the very next day, which WAS possible considering that an intact and good rail system was in place. Of course the LAMTA and the cities of Pasadena and South Pasadena shot it down and the rails were immediately torn out. They cited the typical NIMBY concerns such as "noise", "vibration", "pollution", etc, despite the fact that the corridor had been in use in that capacity since the G**DAMNED 1880's. That is not a typo. The route was that old.
We all know of course that the issue boiled down to aesthetics and the "sexy appeal" of "modern and futuristic" Light Rail (basically a glorified bus on rails) as opposed to any legitimate superiority.
The MTA further dropped the ball by letting the residents of those cities get used to nearly a decade of silence. So naturally, they rose up in opposition even to the LRT that now exists. As far as I know, they STILL resent it being there.
Now the Gold Line is being built, not because of any legitimate need (ridership numbers have been abysmal since Day One), but rather, as a political "put a sock in it" to the cities of the SGV so that they won't have anything to complain about when LA county turns its attention to the West Side and other area projects that are really much higher on the wish list.
But on the plus side: think of how many people collected paychecks while A) the professional obstructionists kept this project in limbo for how many years while at the same time, others were lobbying for it and B) how many more will be employed to remove the existing line and rebuild it from scratch.
Using it as it was with perhaps just a few improvements to signalling and the installation of platforms and running Metrolink on it would've made too much sense: it would've been cheaper, faster, and now, it would've already been in service for 16 years.
And we are throwing a party because it will be *ONLY* TWENTY from the time the last trains ran on it until you can do so again. For HALF the original distance. And meanwhile, Gold line proponents still want to see it extended out to Montclair, Ontario Airport, then eventually Palm Springs, New York City, and finally, the moon.
Sorry. But the whole thing is just an utter embarrasment.
The track along the current Gold Line was not high speed and needed to be upgraded. The trains travelling between Pasadena and DTLA were restricted to about 20 MPH. It was also a single track, and Pasadena station did not have a Metrolink approved standard platform, nor did any other non-existent station along the proposed Gold Line SFV extension. The notion of Metrolink having offered to take it over the next day is apocryphal, at best. Sadly, the reason the MTA could get the right of way is because it the track etc. was in declining shape and use and rehabbing it would have taken for use by Metrolink would have taken more MTA money as it is the member counties that pay for expenses in their own county regarding Metrolink service and capital projects, not Metrolink itself. That right of way was had already been purchased by the MTA specifically for a Meto line such as the present the LRT from day one. Would there have been a Metrolink station in the poor community of Highland Park with, by far, the most transit depenant people who could certainly NOT afford the more expensive and far less frequent Metrolink service. It would have been a snob line for the affluent, and not a very good one at that. And let's not forget that the bridge over the 210 Fwy was no longer up to seismic code. Even if Metrolink ran it only as far as Pasadena, such a short trip lacks the economies for it to be justified, and there is no Burbank Airport in Pasadena to justify such an economically unsound service. LRT actually cost less to run than a full-blown Metrolink train for such a short distance which requires a highly paid engineer and conductor, and the cost of the loco. As a single tack line with high expenses, we would have seen headways in the realm of once an hour and certainly not throughout the day for use by the transit dependent folks of the northeast communities of the city of Los Angeles.
The real tragedy was how the subsequent Blue Line Construction Authority (really MTA staff given another name) cheapskated the current Gold Line just to cut costs and getting on-line ASAP: The elemination of a box tunnel for Marmion Way/Highland Park segment that is now slowed down by Street Running mode; no service through downtown Pasadena via Green Street making business and employment inaccessible because the merchants believed that the Gold Line and busses using Green Street as a transitway (this would have taken busses OFF of Colorado Blvd., allowing for much less congestion and better traffic flow on Colorado) would have scared away customers, and those merchants were vehemently against it; which brings us to the saddest part: NO DIRECT SERVICE TO PCC and nearby Cal-Tech.
No, the BLCA wanted cheap and easy and the decision to use the right of way in the center of the 210 had hurt ridership on the Gold Line as it now serves stations too far from where people really want to go. And I do believe that the northern portion of the Gold Line is still the ONLY segment with NO electronic information signs. This must be a sad loss during the many service interruptions due to rain and falling trees.
The current Gold Line is what the communities that it now serves truly needed, not a big, loud, diesel spewing train that would have passed up all the little people in Highland Park, Mt. Washington, et al. It's just that the Gold Line should have had a subway portion under Colorado Blvd, but that was far more than the BLCA every wanted.
Last edited by HarryKerry; 06-29-2010 at 05:09 AM..
OC is one county that desperately needs light rail ...
Yes, but the OCTA botched getting Federal money for it, so the Center Line died. Now, the OCTA is pressing full steam on the hourly Metrolink service between Fullerton and Irvine. The seperate platform and track is nearly complete at Fullerton.
I don't how many people are really going to use this more expensive service throughout the day. Do the transit dependant in OC have the money to do so? Really, Fullerton to Irvine. It seems like a line for the affluent who can afford such expensive Metrolink tickets, but they are at work all day, not riding the trains between 8 and 5.
Yes..our rail system has been subject to a political process that often produces a less than optimal result.
While in many respects it would have been more "efficient" to have a Robert Moses (with unlimited powers) to design and build the most efficient and equitable rail system, I would not want the perfect to be the enemy of the good.
We are finally seeing the rail system expand (with more in the works) which is LONG overdue.
Granted there are plenty of flaws...Green Line not going to LAX, a transfer required from Green to Blue to get from LAX to downtown, Red/Purple line stopping at Wilshire/Western, etc.
Some of these "flaws" will be fixed in the long run, others we will have to live with. But the "good news" is we are building more rail and extending more lines. The longer you wait the more costs rise....so I'll take any progress we can get!
Interesting. The Times columnist who appears on KTLA with his whiney screaming voice about consumer issues said just about pretty much that we need a transit Czar, which really means a Robert Moses, but while New York got the ugly roads it needed at the time, Mr. Moses really was Godzilla who stomped on the city, taking away livelihoods (popular businesses) and homes for far too many people with not much if any compensation. The Times reporter doesn't know this is the 21st century and people like Moses today simply rally the rabble for revolution, and court cases.
The Times reporter is upset that not enough transit operators are on-board for TAP cards. Basically he wants the MTA to tell the transit operator to shut-up and live with it, but that doesn't work today. Now, the MTA has to do its best to cajole and entice the agencies like Santa Monica Municipal Bus Lines, who despise TAP. Well, maybe it would be nice to tell them that its too bad and TAP is it. At least then, TAP would truly be the one card for all.
If you really want to dig deep, here's a brief history of the Gold Line. The document refers to the original "BLUE LINE" which had Pasadena as the northern terminus of that line.
Actually, that paper is missing some info. Most significantly is that when it was decided to route the Blue Line along Washington Blvd. then north on Flower, the terminus was to be Pico Blvd. Station. Meanwhile the the RTD was well into construction of the subway with a station at 7th Street/Flower. Both agencies (the old LACTC for the Blue Line) continued construction still hating each others guts and NOT cooperating at all.
Then the Times finally reported what we who had been following the Blue and Red line knew for YEARS. The Blue line was going to end a mere SIX BLOCKS short of the planned and already designed subway station. This was a huge scandal at the time and both agencies blamed the other and both claimed they didn't have the money to fix it now, anyway. This was the last straw, and it was this highly publicized transit stupidity that motivated then Assemblyman Richard Katz to author the legislation that combined the LACTC and RTD into the current MTA that passed the legislature. Overall, with all its worts, the current MTA and how it is governed is far superior to either the old LACTC or RTD.
Well, being another era, the state and the city found other money laying around and funded the extension of the Blue line underground to the subway station at 7th Street. The RTD had to do a rush re-design of the 7th Street subway station (so rushed they built it without drain pipes as the original plans had that had to be added after construction) and it shows. That is why the 7th street Metro Center is the ugliest, dingiest, poorly lit and designed station in the entire system. Try accessing the station from Flower Street. This is why people arriving at the station via Blue Line choose to go down to the subway platform to exit the Figueroa portal. Do any of you remember that awful TV monitor system that was supposed to tell us on which platform the Blue Line would depart? That was before the other stations platforms were extended.
There are even more things that were either omitted or not communicated to the preparer of the paper. It really isn't that good of an historical rundown.
My only gripe with the Gold Line is the amount of time it takes to get to downtown. I use to live in Hollywood and would take the train to downtown; amazing.
When I moved to Pasadena, I took the train for a year -- the drive to station for me was only 5 minutes, but the amount of time it took to park my car, take the gold line, transfer to the red was well over an hour. Not to mention that it was even longer if I left work after 6:30 since the trains did not run as frequent. I guess beggars can't be choosers, but my commute via car on the 210 -> 110 is no more than 40 minutes usually.
The trek further east on the Gold line is going to be a long one, but I'm glad that option is available for people. I guess you can't really rush the trains for safety reasons since they are above ground etc -- especially around the highland park area.
I don't think I ever took the Gold line when this was offered, but I thought I saw that they use to offer an 'express' train during rush hour that missed certain stops; does anyone remember this or am I just crazy?
I agree. Although I have to be happy that we at least have something, anyway. No doubt because of the LA areas size and density, an all subway and elevated system like DC Metro or BART (BART is really commuter rail) with heavy rail subway cars that can achieve faster speeds and have greater capacity is the ideal for our area as it reduces the trip time and allow for more passengers (how many millions did it cost us to extend the Blue Line platforms because LRT is barely adequate there?) and makes the system more attractive. Time is everything. Of course, far too many politicians on the right don't like the cost of such a system and even wrote letters to Congress (Mr. Antonovich, who now is a big booster of the Gold Line. He hated rail and thought nobody would use it. Now he compliments Metrolink and champions Gold Line?) to undermine other rail projects that it made LA look silly as the Feds couldn't figure out if we really wanted all that Federal money for more subway (this is some years back) or not.
Express service used to be offered, but Metro made safety enhancements that allowed trains that stop at all stations to pick up time and speed. Hence the express service was canceled. Trip time from Sierra Madre Villa Station to Union Station is now 29 minutes over the roughly 13 miles.
Light rail can reach speeds of over 60mph, such as on the Green Line that hits those speeds on many spots. The Green Line does its 20 mile trip in 30 minutes. Still slower than heavy rail, but pretty fast for light rail.
The express service was also very user UN-friendly as it increased wait times for passengers who would get really pissed when an express passed, and too long a wait for the local, especially those who needed to catch a Metrolink home. People were missing Metrolinks home. The Times had a few good articles about how UN-popular the express was to many users. Yes, fixed with upgrades that allow faster speeds, but this is all the legacy of LRT and Street Running in Highland Park instead of heavy rail like subway and elevated.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryKerry
Yes, but the OCTA botched getting Federal money for it, so the Center Line died. Now, the OCTA is pressing full steam on the hourly Metrolink service between Fullerton and Irvine. The seperate platform and track is nearly complete at Fullerton.
I don't how many people are really going to use this more expensive service throughout the day. Do the transit dependant in OC have the money to do so? Really, Fullerton to Irvine. It seems like a line for the affluent who can afford such expensive Metrolink tickets, but they are at work all day, not riding the trains between 8 and 5.
They do need more frequent service throughout the day as Metrolink is inadequate. As you have stated, those who need it the most cannot afford the high Metrolink fares so expanding Metrolink versus developing a light rail service is NOT the best way to go. Also, there needs to be some light rail service to expedite east/west travel as well. If OC does not wish to develop the infrastructure to develop light rail, the least they can do is expand their freeway express buses to run throughout the day. One bus going north in the AM and one bus going south in the PM is NOT enough!
The real tragedy was how the subsequent Blue Line Construction Authority (really MTA staff given another name) cheapskated the current Gold Line just to cut costs and getting on-line ASAP: The elemination of a box tunnel for Marmion Way/Highland Park segment that is now slowed down by Street Running mode; no service through downtown Pasadena via Green Street making business and employment inaccessible because the merchants believed that the Gold Line and busses using Green Street as a transitway (this would have taken busses OFF of Colorado Blvd., allowing for much less congestion and better traffic flow on Colorado) would have scared away customers, and those merchants were vehemently against it; which brings us to the saddest part: NO DIRECT SERVICE TO PCC and nearby Cal-Tech.
No, the BLCA wanted cheap and easy and the decision to use the right of way in the center of the 210 had hurt ridership on the Gold Line as it now serves stations too far from where people really want to go. And I do believe that the northern portion of the Gold Line is still the ONLY segment with NO electronic information signs. This must be a sad loss during the many service interruptions due to rain and falling trees.
The current Gold Line is what the communities that it now serves truly needed, not a big, loud, diesel spewing train that would have passed up all the little people in Highland Park, Mt. Washington, et al. It's just that the Gold Line should have had a subway portion under Colorado Blvd, but that was far more than the BLCA every wanted.
Harry: Nice detailed historical summary. What a shame the Gold Line does not more directly serve downtown Pasadena. Agreed, underground segments in Highland Park SHOULD have been built. Very frustrating that short-term thinking too often wins out.
Few clarifying questions:
-Doesn't the current Gold Line have a stop walking distance to Old Town Pasadena (Memorial Park station)?
-Was the proposed Green Street segment an undergournd or above ground segment?
-And where might the stations have been and where would the line have jogged back to the 210 Freeway?
-Was there a proposed alignment that stopped at PCC? Similar mistake made by the blue line....which TOTALLY bypasses USC!! Finally, the Expo line will fix that error.
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