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Old 03-10-2009, 03:13 PM
 
Location: GLAMA
16,584 posts, read 32,641,418 times
Reputation: 16781

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Quote:
Originally Posted by King0fthehill View Post

Does it ever strike you that there are normal people in this city who DON'T (or want to) live a lifestyle revolving around.... silly cupcake shops etc ?

Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks it's juvenile and idiotic for grown adults to soil their g-strings over childish cupcakes.

Next target for my steely wrath: Pinkberry.

Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 03-10-2009 at 07:29 PM.. Reason: Language
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Old 03-11-2009, 09:58 AM
 
898 posts, read 1,242,443 times
Reputation: 1007
As long as you have crime and poverty concentrated in the housing projects in the area discussed, no attempt at either gentrification or revitalization will be successful.
I for one always prefer to see revitalization over gentrification because all gentrification does is force the people in those neighborhoods, good and bad, to migrate to other neighborhoods and, unfortounately, this usually results in the neighborhood they've migrated to suffering.
The answer lies in finding a way to bring back large MANUFACTURING businesses to these areas. L.A. didn't use to have a gang problem because kids who joined gangs (for protection back then) had jobs waiting for them in plants as soon as they graduated high school. A gang was something that you outgrew back then. When all those plants and mills were run out by our state's decision to over tax them, those jobs left with them and our "missguided" youth had nothing better to do and stayed in their gangs (at least partly) out of boredom. Introduce drugs into the equation and now you have gang bangers whose only income is through drug sales. This makes the gang rivalries about money and we all now people will kill over money much faster than they will kill over arbitrary boundaries or gang colors.
Wallmarts are a good start but are not enough. Any attempt at fixing anything will only fail if you don't produce an evironment where the people who live there will want to keep it clean. Gang bangers and drug dealers (now the same thing) don't mind living in depressed areas because they go home to posh conditions (at least in comparison to their surroundings) and they make a profit off of other people's misery.
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Old 03-11-2009, 11:29 AM
 
177 posts, read 626,743 times
Reputation: 101
I heard from a friend that Watts is revitalizing. But still, I never plan on moving to South LA.
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Old 03-11-2009, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
69,275 posts, read 79,447,244 times
Reputation: 38635
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatmancomics View Post
As long as you have crime and poverty concentrated in the housing projects in the area discussed, no attempt at either gentrification or revitalization will be successful.
I for one always prefer to see revitalization over gentrification because all gentrification does is force the people in those neighborhoods, good and bad, to migrate to other neighborhoods and, unfortounately, this usually results in the neighborhood they've migrated to suffering.
The answer lies in finding a way to bring back large MANUFACTURING businesses to these areas. L.A. didn't use to have a gang problem because kids who joined gangs (for protection back then) had jobs waiting for them in plants as soon as they graduated high school. A gang was something that you outgrew back then. When all those plants and mills were run out by our state's decision to over tax them, those jobs left with them and our "missguided" youth had nothing better to do and stayed in their gangs (at least partly) out of boredom. Introduce drugs into the equation and now you have gang bangers whose only income is through drug sales. This makes the gang rivalries about money and we all now people will kill over money much faster than they will kill over arbitrary boundaries or gang colors.
Wallmarts are a good start but are not enough. Any attempt at fixing anything will only fail if you don't produce an evironment where the people who live there will want to keep it clean. Gang bangers and drug dealers (now the same thing) don't mind living in depressed areas because they go home to posh conditions (at least in comparison to their surroundings) and they make a profit off of other people's misery.
I hate to disagree with you but I was born and raised in Los Angeles, gangs were around in the east part of the city even in the 50s. Gang violence had spread even further north and east by the 70s. Did the kids outgrow the gangs, some yes, but many either never lived that long or ended up in jail for all kinds of crimes..This is not anything new to L.A.

Nita
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Old 03-11-2009, 05:18 PM
 
672 posts, read 1,789,206 times
Reputation: 873
There were two big things that hit South LA hard, and why it has taken so much time to come back.

One, as fatmancomics mentioned, was that there was a lot of manufacturing down there that has gone away. There was a lot of aerospace and auto parts manufacturing that supplied a lot of jobs.

The other was the collapse of service unions like the old janitors unions. Those service jobs used to pay a living wage. There weren't so many people willing to do the dirty work so the unions were fairly strong. But beginning around the 80s, there were too many new arrivals willing to undercut the union wages for the unions to survive.
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Old 03-12-2009, 02:18 PM
 
898 posts, read 1,242,443 times
Reputation: 1007
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
I hate to disagree with you but I was born and raised in Los Angeles, gangs were around in the east part of the city even in the 50s. Gang violence had spread even further north and east by the 70s. Did the kids outgrow the gangs, some yes, but many either never lived that long or ended up in jail for all kinds of crimes..This is not anything new to L.A.

Nita
Yeah, I don't understand what the disagreement is about. I guess the problem this time is that I stated that "L.A. didn't use to have a gang problem" and you stated that there were gangs. Okay, I guess L.A. had a "gang problem" back then as well. The point is that, back then, gangs were created for protection (black kids who came together to protect themselves from white kids when the neighborhoods were desegregated) where now they are more like organized crime. See, back then it was a necessity and now it's about money. Back then there were jobs waiting for gang members as soon as they got out of high school so there was more of an opportunity for them to outgrow being in a gang while nowadays the money that they can make from being in a gang will be better than working at any Walmart type establishment. Back then a gang was simply a group of kids who fought alongside one another while today it's a full blown business thanks to the drug trade. Back then you fought, made it home and lived to fight another day while today you look at the wrong guy and you get shot to death for it. Back then you graduated high school and went to work at the same plant or mill that your rivals went to work for or ended up living on the same street. Back then being a gang member could be chalked up to "misspent youth" while today you'll be lucky to make it past your youth if you join a gang.

Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 03-12-2009 at 05:55 PM.. Reason: No need to get personal -- thanks.
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Old 03-12-2009, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
69,275 posts, read 79,447,244 times
Reputation: 38635
As for gangs, if you had lived in L.A back when you would know the gangs did exist but not in So Central as much as the east side and not primarily blacks, but hispanics..many did not live long enough to get out of their teens. I can remember innocent toddler shot down by gang menbers by accident: wrong house and this was 30 and 40 years ago. Yes, the gangs were organized and had little if anything to do with desegregation. What happened later is a different story.

As for the manufacturing jobs, they has disappeared all over our country..We are no longer a country supported by manufacturing. We have become a service and tech country. Manufacturing started moving to other countries back in the 70s. What is still being manufactured here has moved to smaller cities and states where labor is cheaper or has gone to illegals..

You mentioned kids would get out of high school and go to work in the same mills, I don't know where you are getting your information but I don't remember any mills in So Central Los Angeles and very few factories, but there were a few. I don't think you have a very good understanding of what So Central Los Angeles, Watts and Compton have been like for over 50 years. You mention kids graduating from high school, very few kids in those areas ever managed to graduate..

I don't know where you were raised, I do know not in Los Angeles. I think you are comparing L.A. with other parts of the company. Watts, Compton and So Central L.A. has always had high crime, low employment and a high percentage on welfare. It has nothing to do with jobs not being there..If you remember right the Watts riots were in 1965..

We obviously do not agree on many things. You think you are right, I think my way of thinking is right, so I guess we can just agree to disagree.

Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 03-12-2009 at 05:55 PM.. Reason: References to previous post deleted.
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Old 03-12-2009, 05:05 PM
 
894 posts, read 2,060,667 times
Reputation: 191
are any of those places revitalizing or taking steps toward?
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Old 03-12-2009, 05:25 PM
 
Location: Northern Arizona
1,248 posts, read 2,999,999 times
Reputation: 624
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiMack View Post
are any of those places revitalizing or taking steps toward?
Tiny pockets, maybe. There's a couple of newer strip malls and town centers in Watts and Compton bordering Long Beach that are *better* than everything else in the immediate vicinity, but they're not going to be rivaling Hollywood, Venice or Santa Monica anytime in the near future.

Some of the better areas in what many consider South Central include Leimert Park and Baldwin Hills.
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Old 03-12-2009, 06:55 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,898,074 times
Reputation: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
As for gangs, if you had lived in L.A back when you would know the gangs did exist but not in So Central as much as the east side and not primarily blacks, but hispanics..many did not live long enough to get out of their teens. I can remember innocent toddler shot down by gang menbers by accident: wrong house and this was 30 and 40 years ago. Yes, the gangs were organized and had little if anything to do with desegregation. What happened later is a different story.

As for the manufacturing jobs, they has disappeared all over our country..We are no longer a country supported by manufacturing. We have become a service and tech country. Manufacturing started moving to other countries back in the 70s. What is still being manufactured here has moved to smaller cities and states where labor is cheaper or has gone to illegals..

You mentioned kids would get out of high school and go to work in the same mills, I don't know where you are getting your information but I don't remember any mills in So Central Los Angeles and very few factories, but there were a few. I don't think you have a very good understanding of what So Central Los Angeles, Watts and Compton have been like for over 50 years. You mention kids graduating from high school, very few kids in those areas ever managed to graduate..

I don't know where you were raised, I do know not in Los Angeles. I think you are comparing L.A. with other parts of the company. Watts, Compton and So Central L.A. has always had high crime, low employment and a high percentage on welfare. It has nothing to do with jobs not being there..If you remember right the Watts riots were in 1965..

We obviously do not agree on many things. You think you are right, I think my way of thinking is right, so I guess we can just agree to disagree.
Were white gangs in those days (50s) referred to as gangs?
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