Maine Schools--New Grading System (Brewer: co-op, how much, homes)

[flycessna]

Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man

I disagree. We used to have "the Iowas" where students all across the nation took progress tests. You could compare your school or your child with the nation or the next district over. It was true accountability. Faculties did not want to be evaluated and they went through several new systems of evaluation. The most recent one is the most ridiculous yet. If fewer than 95% of the students in a school take the test the school is dropped one letter grade. If fewer than 90% of the students take the test the school gets an "F:. This is not about academic achievement. It is about compliance.

I say we should go back to the Iowas and find out where we really stand. We know we are #32 among the developed nations. If they are successful in imposing Common Core or the Soviet model we will soon be at #40.

I'd like to say "I stand corrected" I totally get your point about nationally standardized tests. Something so simple (at least on paper) should be brought back!

But to dismiss this grading system I don't know. What I do know is that what any democrat puts forth in my opinion will be smoking mirrors with attempt to just throw more money at it. People and politicians who try and make this about the "schools" as if there is something broken are not being truthful. IMO School rankings are for the public so that they can decide where they want to live and what schools they want to send their children too. It may not sound nice but People who have choices don't want to send their kids to these schools not because they don't think their kids will receive a good education.. (I know many many graduates of LHS who go on to prestigious colleges across the nation and excel) but they don't want their kids exposed to a particular element of society.

[roadrat]

Originally Posted by flycessna

I'd like to say "I stand corrected" I totally get your point about nationally standardized tests. Something so simple (at least on paper) should be brought back!

But to dismiss this grading system I don't know. What I do know is that what any democrat puts forth in my opinion will be smoking mirrors with attempt to just throw more money at it. People and politicians who try and make this about the "schools" as if there is something broken are not being truthful. IMO School rankings are for the public so that they can decide where they want to live and what schools they want to send their children too. It may not sound nice but People who have choices don't want to send their kids to these schools not because they don't think their kids will receive a good education.. (I know many many graduates of LHS who go on to prestigious colleges across the nation and excel) but they don't want their kids exposed to a particular element of society.

You have a good point with this, "they don't want their kids exposed to a particular element of society." My wife and I are planning on moving out of Lewiston so that our son does not have to attend Lew. Junior High and Lew. High.
If we had a voucher system or a Charter school we would not have to move.



bill

[bangorme]

The grading system is only one part of school assessment. I graduated from Cape Elizabeth High School (top on the list), which is located in a very affluent community. We were not affluent, but my father bought a little house there just so we could attend school there. It was a fantastic school for kids wanting to enter the best colleges in the country, but not so good for everyone else. It appears that this grading system was really focused on kids in that category, and we know that lots of kids aren't in that category. It's also important to remember that "charter schools" usually don't HAVE to take everyone (e.g. special ed kids). Due to unfunded mandates by the federal government, these kids absorb huge amounts of resources out of a school system.

So, use the grading system, but compare apples to apples. Don't compare Calais High School with Cape Elizabeth H.S. If you live in one of Maine's majority of poorer towns and your schools got an F, and another poorer town got a C, you've got some questions to ask and some accountability to demand.

[roadrat]

Originally Posted by bangorme

The grading system is only one part of school assessment. I graduated from Cape Elizabeth High School (top on the list), which is located in a very affluent community. We were not affluent, but my father bought a little house there just so we could attend school there. It was a fantastic school for kids wanting to enter the best colleges in the country, but not so good for everyone else. It appears that this grading system was really focused on kids in that category, and we know that lots of kids aren't in that category. It's also important to remember that "charter schools" usually don't HAVE to take everyone (e.g. special ed kids). Due to unfunded mandates by the federal government, these kids absorb huge amounts of resources out of a school system.

So, use the grading system, but compare apples to apples. Don't compare Calais High School with Cape Elizabeth H.S. If you live in one of Maine's majority of poorer towns and your schools got an F, and another poorer town got a C, you've got some questions to ask and some accountability to demand.

You are confusing charter schools with private schools, Maine's charter schools can and do by law accept spec.ed kids.
Maine DOE - Charter Schools Questions & Answers

obviously a lot of confusion on the whole charter school program.



bill

[bangorme]

Originally Posted by roadrat

You are confusing charter schools with private schools, Maine's charter schools can and do by law accept spec.ed kids.
Maine DOE - Charter Schools Questions & Answers

obviously a lot of confusion on the whole charter school program.



bill

Thank you, I stand corrected. That being said, I'd be interested in the number/percentage of student body of special ed kids enrolled in public school systems versus the same area charter schools. Bangor might be a good place to start the comparison (if there are charter schools in this area). Or, any other place that has a good public school and area charter schools. I don't know what the numbers are, but I suspect that "can and do" could mean "can and do and don't have to very often." But, maybe not.

[roadrat]

Originally Posted by bangorme

Thank you, I stand corrected. That being said, I'd be interested in the number/percentage of student body of special ed kids enrolled in public school systems versus the same area charter schools. Bangor might be a good place to start the comparison (if there are charter schools in this area). Or, any other place that has a good public school and area charter schools. I don't know what the numbers are, of the but I suspect that "can and do" could mean "can and do and don't have to very often." But, maybe not.

The Charter schools have just started and are fighting for there lives from the teachers unions and there democrat cronies, it will be a while before we see any stats assuming the union doesn't kill them outright.
Isn't it funny that Democrats will site a poll or winning an election as a mandate to do something, But an actual vote by the people on a specific issue means nothing to them.



bill

[Fern435]

Our daughter attends a small public high school in one of the smaller consolidated school units in Maine. Though the school may not have the highest rating, the teachers there are incredibly talented, professional, dedicated and AMAZING. We are truly impressed with the quality of the teachers and the atmosphere at the school. Though the number of affluent families is not high in our area, there are many students in a variety of circumstances who take responsibility for their education and are motivated to do well (or at the very least, not detract from the teachers teaching and depriving other students from the opportunity to learn). We are very happy with our daughter's progress in academics. The teachers and staff really know the students at a smaller school, and they have more time and flexibility to help those who seek it.

Wealthy communities usually have higher average scores, but the social dynamics may be quite problematic for some. In my experience, some parents seem to feel that raising their children in an affluent lifestyle somehow relieves them from the job of actually parenting. Not all of course, but definitely some.

This grading system of schools only provides a small snapshot of information (which may be misleading) that won't necessarily give an accurate assessment of the quality of teaching that is available to the students. In some cases, the school grade seems to indicate the level of importance parents place on education. If children go to school unwilling to respect their teachers and peers and to do their best to learn, then it makes the teachers' jobs much more difficult.

Pardon my jumbled sentences; I'm watching "The King's Speech" while I type!

[Northern Maine Land Man]

I spoke with a board member of one of the "F" schools. Three students quit school. One family moved away. One family began home schooling their child and one family was out of state on the day of the test. According to the state records that brought the participation rate down to 88% so the school gets an "F". It makes no difference that the school math team wins the state math meet on a regular basis, that there are numerous students taking college courses in advanced placement or that other students are in Asia with exchange programs.

Rules are rules.

[Submariner]

As I understand it.

They tabulated:
Math and Reading proficiencies;
3-year average proficiency progress,
and Graduation rates.

For final scores, they tabulated:
40% of the final score from proficiencies;
40% from progress;
and 20% from graduation rate.

Letter grades are awarded in a bell curve.
10 schools - A
20 schools - B
50 schools - C
20 schools - D
10 schools - F

The only thing I would have liked to have seen, would have been to factor in budget.

Total overall per-pupil spending should have been given more weight into the final score. I would say at least equal to the proficiencies and 3-year average progress rates.

[bangorme]

Originally Posted by Submariner

As I understand it.


The only thing I would have liked to have seen, would have been to factor in budget.

Total overall per-pupil spending should have been given more weight into the final score. I would say at least equal to the proficiencies and 3-year average progress rates.

What does budget have to do with it? We can all agree that the expectation is that communities that spend more on education (because they can, or make huge sacrifices to) will do better than those that don't. That's a REASON why the ranking could be higher/lower. There are tons of other reasons. Another being poverty. I could come with ten more if I put my mind to it. That's why you compare apples to apples and who cares about the reasons? Which schools systems do the best with what they have? Small town to small town. Poor town to poor town. etc... That is the important question. Then if you want to take reason by reason and analyze the results against those reasons, that's the whole different project... mainly one for academics.