Talbot County council votes to keep Confederate statue (Cumberland, Frostburg: credit, public school)

[bus man]

Originally Posted by The Very Man Himself

IThere have been repeated protests (some over 1,000 people) in Easton since late May, and so far there have been no attempts to tear down the statue. The protestors don't want the statue*torn down, they just want it moved off publicly owned land.

It could go in a museum, cemetery, etc, where people who want to view it can have all the access they want, but people for whom it is an issue are not forced to walk by it to access the court. What about that do you*find unreasonable?

Protests express the will of the people who are protesting. Do they represent the will of the majority of the people in the affected area? Maybe, maybe not. But there is one really good way to find out what the will of the majority of the people is: hold a vote. If the majority of the people of Talbot County vote to have the statue moved to a museum or a cemetery -- or, for that matter, if they vote to melt it down in a huge bonfire and hold a community marshmallow roast -- then as far as I'm concerned, that's the end of that.

But if they vote to keep it where it is, then it needs to stay where it is. Period.

[bus man]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

6. And here is where we get back to that basic divide in Maryland between our few rural areas and our bountiful suburban and urban population. Suburban Maryland rarely has a problem judging rural Maryland, telling us what to do, and how to do it, and backing it by the force of the majority if necessary. Suburban Marylanders often don't recognize how this attitude comes across to their distant rural neighbors, and are often incapable of the empathy needed to put themselves in our shoes. If they did, they would understand what it is like to have your community dismissed past the point of irrelevancy, and squarely placed into a category where outsiders feel it is OK to advocate for mob action against us if we don't go along.

I hear ya. I'm a suburban Marylander, but it galls me, how some of my compatriots are so dismissive of rural people and their concerns, or condescending if they bother to pay attention to you at all. I remember there was an issue, a few years back, when the Western Maryland counties asked for legal approval to do something to limit the bear population, because of the trouble that the bears were causing the people there. But it was blocked by the animal rights activists among the suburban legislators, who cared only for how the bears might feel, and cared not one whit about the trouble that they were causing out in Allegany and Garrett counties. That's just one of many such examples -- including what we're seeing here on this thread.

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by bus man

I hear ya. I'm a suburban Marylander, but it galls me, how some of my compatriots are so dismissive of rural people and their concerns, or condescending if they bother to pay attention to you at all. I remember there was an issue, a few years back, when the Western Maryland counties asked for legal approval to do something to limit the bear population, because of the trouble that the bears were causing the people there. But it was blocked by the animal rights activists among the suburban legislators, who cared only for how the bears might feel, and cared not one whit about the trouble that they were causing out in Allegany and Garrett counties. That's just one of many such examples -- including what we're seeing here on this thread.

Oh, the bear hunt. That is a great example. Nothing like having protestors arriving in one of the 2 or 3 poorest counties in the state to advocate for the health and well being........of wild animals. Was that a Maggie McIntosh obsession? Our State Senator, George Edwards, would introduce a bill every year proposing we round up the bears and move them downstate since Ms. McIntosh loved them so much and didn't want to see them harmed. Surprisingly, it never passed.........

The arrival of the bears to the rest of MD has muted much of this talk. As any local could have predicted, when the bear is outside your house, eating your trash, and harming your pets, your opinion on population control for them tends to change pretty quickly.

[MrRational]

Originally Posted by bus man

But if they vote to keep it where it is, then it needs to stay where it is.

I'm sure that notion would suit but you can be sure that isn't where it would end.
IF the vote measure doesn't succeed in having the decent outcome it goes to the Courts.
Then you get to recast all the arguments against decency again.
Then you get to watch the statue removed. As it should be.
As it should have been at any number of previous points.

[MrRational]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

Did we change, or did Maryland Democrats?

Democrats changed EVERYWHERE beginning about 50 years ago...
when the reactionary neanderthal element shifted to the Republicans.

[santafe400]

Contrary to popular belief, I don't think most of the "Balt-DC" corridor is opposed to things that would benefit those in more distant, rural jurisdictions. I'd imagine that a large chunk of folks from Carroll, Harford, Anne Arundel, and even Baltimore Counties vote for things that would favor those in more rural counties. It's really just two counties in the state that kind of ruin it for everyone else (Moco, PG). I won't count Baltimore City since most of their residents don't vote anyway.

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by MrRational

Democrats changed EVERYWHERE beginning about 50 years ago...
when the reactionary neanderthal element shifted to the Republicans.

My county stayed relatively loyal the MD Dem machine into the 21st century. We turned hard red once the O'Malley "One Maryland" (meaning there is One Maryland, the burbs, and we tell the rest of the state what to do) program and mentality took over from the Cas Taylor coalition previously described.

I saw it happen from the front lines of the campaign trails, no pre-modern humans were involved.

[The Very Man Himself]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

That's a pretty common theme in my posts, probably THE common theme.

Minority populations, be them black or white, generally aren't well represented. The genius of Cas Taylor, District 1-C, the move that made him Speaker of the House of Delegates, was creating an alliance of white rural districts and inner city black Baltimore ones. He made the valid point that both areas were overlooked by suburban Maryland, and that we were stronger together. He held that coalition together until his loss, and I think MD politics since have been far worse, and far more "urban/suburban vs. rural" rather than "haves vs. have nots."

It is almost impossible to believe my 20 or so years in politics have seen Allegany County go from a bluish purple county at the state level that voted for Glendening in 1998 and had 3 Democrats as delegates (Kelly, Taylor, and Workman) to a county where the Democratic Central Committee can't get enough candidates to run for all the available offices, let alone have a chance at winning them.

Did we change, or did Maryland Democrats? Considering the pace of change in Western Maryland, I will guess it wasn't us.

Now that I learn* you've been "in politics" for twenty years, your trenchant views make more sense. People in politics generally hold stronger views than the rest of us.*I looked at the demographics of Calvert & Allegany Counties, 83% and 93% white respectively. Talbot is 78% white, while MD is on the cusp of becoming majority minority, currently 50.2% non hispanic white.

Unfamiliarity with minorities and PoC generally may be part of the problem. Multicultural societies tend to be much more vibrant and progressive than monocultural. It's the same the world over. Also applies to mono theoistic cultures. It's a multicultural world out there. You can run but you can't hide. It's no secret that both R's and D's have changed, and are further apart than previously. I believe D's have changed less than R's.

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by The Very Man Himself

Now that I learn* you've been "in politics" for twenty years, your trenchant views make more sense. People in politics generally hold stronger views than the rest of us.*I looked at the demographics of Calvert & Allegany Counties, 83% and 93% white respectively. Talbot is 78% white, while MD is on the cusp of becoming majority minority, currently 50.2% non hispanic white.

Unfamiliarity with minorities and PoC generally may be part of the problem. Multicultural societies tend to be much more vibrant and progressive than monocultural. It's the same the world over. Also applies to mono theoistic cultures. It's a multicultural world out there. You can run but you can't hide. It's no secret that both R's and D's have changed, and are further apart than previously. I believe D's have changed less than R's.

No, no, I work in campaigns and elections; technical work like creating vote models, measuring party performance, grooming mailing lists, projecting turnout and selecting likely voter profiles, making walking and canvasing lists that maximize volunteer time and effort. I'll gladly take payment from Republicans and Democrats. Most of my highest dollar assignments were working for local Democrats, like Speaker Taylor. My family has long standing networks with both the Cumberland Catholic Democrat types and the traditionally deep red mining regions in the west of the county. I'm a proud mercenary who has voted exactly once for a major party candidate for President and voted GOP in District 6 for the first time last cycle. I had voted DEM or 3rd party against Bartlett, and supported John Delaney.

FYI, I see and interact with more POC than white people on a daily basis because of my job. You really don't know me and shouldn't try to stereotype me because I live in a rural part of Maryland. That is the kind of nonsense my previous posts refer too. Rural Marylanders aren't a monolith.

[Digger 68]

Non Hispanic Blacks account for forty million of America's population..........

What a ramble thread........