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I'm looking forward to seeing North Quincy High compete on High School Quiz Show this weekend!
I'm white and live in Quincy. I agree with both perspectives here. I've certainly seen examples of racism--for instance, a storefront will stand vacant for years. Then an Asian business moves in and people complain, "The Asians are taking over!" Would people really prefer vacant storefronts?
I also agree that the Asian kids have a positive impact on the schools. And the Asians commit much less crime, per capita.
At the same time, I am frustrated by some behavior, from what I assume are recent immigrants. Spitting all over the sidewalks. Coughing and sneezing on trains without covering their mouths. Darting into the street, in the midst of traffic, not 100 feet from a crosswalk. (There have been a huge number of Chinese pedestrians hit by cars in Quincy.) Not following the rules of the road while driving. Etc.
On the whole, I think the Chinese influence in Quincy is positive. But I don't find myself wishing for the old-timers to all be replaced, either. There is a long-standing working class community here. Quincy is still one of the most affordable cities in the greater Boston area. I don't want it to become super-gentrified, flashy and expensive.
Sorry to bump an old thread, but this is a good conversation.
I'm also Chinese-American, highly educated, but born and grew up in a wealthy part of China (Shanghai). As a visible Asian minority, there's definitely a certain tension walking around Quincy that I didn't experience in say Cambridge, Newton, Dedham, Hull, Hingham, Marblehead, Lynn, Saugus, Natick, Milford, you get the idea.
I hate to agree partly with miu, but there should be some responsibility of the Chinese newcomers in Quincy to at least try to learn English and mingle more with the larger community (i.e., give business not to just the Chinese ones). What's the point of coming to the US to replicate China? That's the same kind of full-retard attitude I see in some Hispanic communities as well (escape Guatemala to join a Latino gang in the west side of Chicago, outcome: largely the same).
Part of the reason why there is tension is that BOTH the Asian newcomers and the white locals aren't all that educated (I generalize). Most of the Chinese moving into Quincy are low-skill Cantonese villagers who came through chain migration, not the H1B/student Chinese immigrants that can be found throughout many college towns in America. I could almost strangle the Chinese FOB I saw on Hancock landing a massive loogie onto the sidewalk. Some of the superstitious stuff I see going on (like during a grand opening or home purchase) makes even me a China-born Chinese (but not born in Bum Fùk Mi village) cringe. And the goddamn parasols!
Also because the Chinese community in Quincy is so large and tend to be from the same small area of China, whatever things these Chinese in Quincy do, I feel like I'm guilty by association simply of being also Chinese. You become trapped with perceived cultural traditions and habits that aren't really even yours to begin with! I mean China is a HUGE continental-sized country that is as ethnically and culturally diverse as Europe.
But for the most part these Chinese immigrants work hard, save every penny, and emphasize school to their children. By the time the second-generation starts living in Quincy, I envision the place to be a lot more assimilated and wealthier. The risk (I think low) is that Quincy turns into a seedy Chinatown full of the equivalent of Chinese "white trash" before the second-generation is contemplating buying in the neighborhood.
So while I agree with miu's viewpoint now of the Chinese community in Quincy and how it's viewed by the locals, I do think in the long run Quincy will be a fairly nice place with minimal racism. Education is the key.
The Asians are on the whole a positive element, though some of their cultural habits are different from the general American ones. What I am most fearful for Quincy is the 64 bed detox center that will go into the neighborhood around Wollaston Center. That will definitely ruin Wollaston as a neighborhood. I simply cannot believe that the mayor of Quincy and the state rep John Keenan (both are related as in-laws) support this. All the drug addicts from surrounding towns will now be sent to Wollaston and they will become the plague of the area.
The Asians work hard, pays taxes. Many of them live in Wollaston too and I don't think they even know what is about to happen to that neighborhood. It's disgraceful with this drug detox center. It was presented to the community as an after though and a "done deal". I certainly will not be voting for our incompetent councilor and the mayor in the next election.
The Asians work hard, pays taxes. Many of them live in Wollaston too and I don't think they even know what is about to happen to that neighborhood. It's disgraceful with this drug detox center. It was presented to the community as an after thought and a "done deal". I certainly will not be voting for our incompetent councilor and the mayor in the next election.
That's the other point. The Chinese newcomers aren't really involved with the political process.
The Asians are on the whole a positive element, though some of their cultural habits are different from the general American ones. What I am most fearful for Quincy is the 64 bed detox center that will go into the neighborhood around Wollaston Center. That will definitely ruin Wollaston as a neighborhood. I simply cannot believe that the mayor of Quincy and the state rep John Keenan (both are related as in-laws) support this. All the drug addicts from surrounding towns will now be sent to Wollaston and they will become the plague of the area.
The Asians work hard, pays taxes. Many of them live in Wollaston too and I don't think they even know what is about to happen to that neighborhood. It's disgraceful with this drug detox center. It was presented to the community as an after though and a "done deal". I certainly will not be voting for our incompetent councilor and the mayor in the next election.
One less neocon NIMBY vote. Ain't that a shame.
"Treatment facilities" on their own do little or nothing to affect the quality of life in a neighborhood. I know this from many years of living near Central Square. Unpopular places like that are inevitably sited in one of two types of communities (neither of them, needless to say, affluent.) One type is the one that's been historically inundated with these sorts of things and has learned that coexistence and tolerance are possible. When a group of "clients" with their garbage-filled shopping carts has taken over a cluster of benches you move on to the next one. The professional panhandlers will soon recognize a new resident and turn their attention to the person, couple, or group headed for a night out for their next dollars instead. When a noisy and pointless argument erupts ("WHERE'S MY F***IN' MONEY???" "I DON'T HAVE YOUR F***IN' MONEY"), just walk around the participants. At worst some of the vagrants - "homeless" is too poetic and euphemistic a term - can be obnoxious. And their appearance, let alone smell, may bother the overly sensitive at times. None of this rises to being a "plague" which will "ruin" a neighborhood. If that was true, why then is Central Square flooded with "ethnic" and trendy spots and their patrons while property values keep climbing?
The other type of community is one like Wollaston, where the residential sections on either side of Hancock St and the Red Line still look pleasant and inviting...BUT...the demographics are unstable and the commercial district is going downhill. A "treatment facility" won't have a huge negative impact on this sort of area either. The mentality of the public officials in this case, though, is different: "The neighborhood's sliding already." Any further erosion of the vicinity's well-being can then be conveniently pinned on the "clients." "The Chinese" will be replaced as a scapegoat by "the druggies."
"Full retard"? Stay classy, BUer.
Far be it from me to derail a thread. In its original incarnation it was started to address a real or perceived racist atmosphere for Asians (presumably, in this case, people whose origins can be traced to the southeast portion of the continent - as opposed to Pakistanis, et al.) The topic was already capably addressed by those who pointed out that "haters gonna hate." Education and/or travel will always reduce the likelihood of the person experiencing them to be ignorant much less project that ignorance. And where "race" is concerned, Southeast Asians have already moved well past other non-White groups in terms of assimilating and being accepted. Were that not the case you wouldn't see what seems to be just about every other young couple in Boston, Cambridge, and Somerville comprised of a Caucasian man and an Asian woman. But go out not too far from the city and issues are still bound to arise. Friends of mine from high school days in Japan (Italian-American boy, Korean girl) went on to get married and settle in that bastion of progressive coexistence known as Weymouth. They got along fine with their neighbors, raised two children, and have stayed reasonably happy there. One afternoon, though, the wife picked up their younger child from high school and stopped to refuel the car on the way home. From the adjacent pump island a White man yelled out, "Go back to your country!" Never mind that she speaks perfect ("flawless," if you will) English and is a naturalized American. When they drove away the 16-year-old turned to her mother and said, "It never ends, does it, Mom?"
No, in some minds it never will end. But the emphasis should be on "some."
Actually, Goyguy, my impression of Wollaston center is one that is gaining traction and becoming nicer with a growing list of good restaurants. This detox center will definitely destroy that good energy/momentum. There will be 6, only 6 professional people handling 64 beds/patients!!!! They will "escort" a patient to the T if the patient wishes to leave....well, what do you think an addict look for the minute he/she leave? That Wolly T will be a huge stock exchange for the buying and selling of drugs. You might as well put up a big sign and let drug peddlers set out carts hawking their ware right there in the parking lot of the Wollaston T! Did I also mention that it is only .5 miles from the new Central Middle School? Only a city like Quincy would take such pride in the opening of such a state of the art new Middle School, and then allow a massive drug detox center to go up half a mile from it!
Central Square is in Cambridge, right between MIT and Harvard. The gentrifying forces of these two educational institutions and all of their positive energies overwhelm anything and everything, including the negative impact of a drug center. Wollaston does not have an MIT or a Harvard nearby. Your comparison between Wollaston and Central Square has absolutely no merit. Wollaston will be destroyed, and you are right, at least the Chinese can say they were not the ones who did it.
"But go out not too far from the city and issues are still bound to arise. Friends of mine from high school days in Japan (Italian-American boy, Korean girl) went on to get married and settle in that bastion of progressive coexistence known as Weymouth."...
Yes, Weymouth...I hear it has a huge drug problem. That detox center for Wollaston should be moved there.
I want to preface this by saying that I searched the forums for threads pertaining to Boston and racism, and that the purpose of this post isn't to ask whether the Boston area is racist. Rather, I wish to share my experiences and wonder if anybody else has experienced or observed anything similar.
I was born and raised in an affluent suburb in north-central Connecticut; the town was mostly white, with very few Asian, Black, or Latino residents. Most of my friends from school were white, and although I did face occasional racist remarks and slurs, I would describe the town as pretty open minded for the most part.
After graduating college (also in CT), I moved to Quincy for my job in Boston. I've only lived here for about 10 months, and I've experienced more racist incidents in the past 10 months than in my entire life in Connecticut. There were two incidents that really stood out. One time when I was walking across the street to the T stop, two guys in a pickup truck almost ran me down in the crosswalk, and as they drove by shouted, "go back to China you ch**k!" In another incident, I was picking up take-out and a few white men in their 30s were hanging out in front of one of the bars on the street. As I walked by one of them spat on the ground near my feet and muttered "f**king g**k" when I turned and asked "what the f**k did you say?" he came at me with his hand in his pocket like he was reaching for something, and said, "get out of here before I stab you, you f**king ch**k". And another time I was hanging out with one of my friends from work (he's white) who also lives in Quincy, and we wanted to head out to one of the local bars. As we were brainstorming ideas, he mentioned a place (it's name escapes me at the moment) but then said, "oh, actually nevermind, they don't allow Asian people in there". I thought he was joking and laughed, but he said, "I'm serious. We can't go there, they won't let you in". I was dumbfounded--I thought this was illegal. These are just among the bigger racial incidents that stood out.
What is surprising to me is the level of racism in Quincy against Asians, especially since Asians make up such a huge portion of the city population (something I didn't know until I moved here). Furthermore, when I'm in Boston itself (financial district, back bay, downtown areas) I feel pretty safe and accepted. I've also been to Cambridge to hang out a few times and I didn't feel any racial tension there either.
Anyway, those are my experiences, I just wanted to get that off my chest and am wondering if anybody else has seen or experienced anything like what I wrote about?
Boston is a beautiful city, but a great many of the people there suck. If you are not white, and especially if you are not white and are successful, they seem to be intimidated by you and angry that you are getting ahead and they - aren't.
well im a american born chinese and i was born and raised in boston, been around quincy, and lived in other states. i also lived in small towns before.
what you described, it will get worse if china and america have issues. the average american will get racist very fast. just look at what happened in 9/11 and middle eastern folks here. or, look at the Japanese interment. people were interned even if they were 1/16th Japanese, that is if one of your great, great grandparents were Japanese, your going to the camps. all it takes is one manipulation from the news or the government to spread hate. some Chinese are 5th generation, some of their ancestors came in the 1800's. a second generation russian/european kid can be fully american. if you asked me the real americans are the natives, their land got robbed. we are still living on the land that was taken away from them.
quincy, before there was not many chinese there. when the 70 and 80's came along, many chinese came in a wave, and once they got money, they started buying up quincy, thats why there is 50% asians there. some people feel that quincy is being taken over. there will always be racist people and non racist people. i think your experience a little bit of identity crisis (if you went to your ethnicity's country) in my case, china, i would be considered too american and cant speak mandarin. but in the states, im just a chinaman to some people. if i have kids, their chances of speaking chinese is very little, but their skin color is still yellow.
what you said about that guy going to stab you, google "vincent chin" and you will understand.
pm me if you have questions.
dude, Japanese interment was more than 70 years ago. And even China did the same thing for a while after the Japanese invasion of China(Actually right after the WWII, Chinese beat a lot of Japanese in China to death). You're complaining that Americans didn't 'hire or invite' Japanese back in the day cause of Pearl Harbor? lmao... yeah.. look what Chinese did to Japanese right after WWII. Americans were the SAINTS compared to Chinese. so... stop embarrassing yourself bro.
Sorry to bump an old thread, but this is a good conversation.
I'm also Chinese-American, highly educated, but born and grew up in a wealthy part of China (Shanghai). As a visible Asian minority, there's definitely a certain tension walking around Quincy that I didn't experience in say Cambridge, Newton, Dedham, Hull, Hingham, Marblehead, Lynn, Saugus, Natick, Milford, you get the idea.
I hate to agree partly with miu, but there should be some responsibility of the Chinese newcomers in Quincy to at least try to learn English and mingle more with the larger community (i.e., give business not to just the Chinese ones). What's the point of coming to the US to replicate China? That's the same kind of full-retard attitude I see in some Hispanic communities as well (escape Guatemala to join a Latino gang in the west side of Chicago, outcome: largely the same).
Part of the reason why there is tension is that BOTH the Asian newcomers and the white locals aren't all that educated (I generalize). Most of the Chinese moving into Quincy are low-skill Cantonese villagers who came through chain migration, not the H1B/student Chinese immigrants that can be found throughout many college towns in America. I could almost strangle the Chinese FOB I saw on Hancock landing a massive loogie onto the sidewalk. Some of the superstitious stuff I see going on (like during a grand opening or home purchase) makes even me a China-born Chinese (but not born in Bum Fùk Mi village) cringe. And the goddamn parasols!
Also because the Chinese community in Quincy is so large and tend to be from the same small area of China, whatever things these Chinese in Quincy do, I feel like I'm guilty by association simply of being also Chinese. You become trapped with perceived cultural traditions and habits that aren't really even yours to begin with! I mean China is a HUGE continental-sized country that is as ethnically and culturally diverse as Europe.
But for the most part these Chinese immigrants work hard, save every penny, and emphasize school to their children. By the time the second-generation starts living in Quincy, I envision the place to be a lot more assimilated and wealthier. The risk (I think low) is that Quincy turns into a seedy Chinatown full of the equivalent of Chinese "white trash" before the second-generation is contemplating buying in the neighborhood.
So while I agree with miu's viewpoint now of the Chinese community in Quincy and how it's viewed by the locals, I do think in the long run Quincy will be a fairly nice place with minimal racism. Education is the key.
But are Americans more racist than Chinese beating and invading Tibetans? That's the real question
I really appreciate the responses/discussion everyone. My personal take on the situation is that it might be a mix of socioeconomics and local culture/attitudes. One point that somebody brought up earlier that I agree with is the way in which the classes deal with the "other", ie. working class taking a provincial/physical stance while the middle/upper classes use their wealth and political influence.
One interesting thing I want to address too, is that since moving to Quincy I've also had ethnicist (if that's a word) experiences with some of the Asians in town as well. For example, I was out walking in Wollaston and an older Chinese couple approached me and started speaking to me in Cantonese. As a second generation Asian American with immigrant Taiwanese parents, I grew up speaking English, and my grasp of Mandarin is slightly above elementary. Anyway, when they started speaking with me in Cantonese, I told them in English that I can't speak Cantonese, and they scoffed, glared at me, and the man spat at the ground toward my feet. I relayed this experience to my parents, and they said that often many older or even contemporary Asians have a contempt of Asian Americans (those born and acculturated in the US), seeing them as "traitors", "shameful/forgetting the 'mother' culture", and beneath them. Just some food for thought.
They spat at your feet for being an Asian American? Then ... why was that old couple living in America? Would that old couple call themselves traitors too? eh.... doesn't make sense .
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Unpopular places like that are inevitably sited in one of two types of communities (neither of them, needless to say, affluent.) One type is the one that's been historically inundated with these sorts of things and has learned that coexistence and tolerance are possible. When a group of "clients" with their garbage-filled shopping carts has taken over a cluster of benches you move on to the next one. The professional panhandlers will soon recognize a new resident and turn their attention to the person, couple, or group headed for a night out for their next dollars instead. When a noisy and pointless argument erupts ("WHERE'S MY F***IN' MONEY???" "I DON'T HAVE YOUR F***IN' MONEY"), just walk around the participants. At worst some of the vagrants - "homeless" is too poetic and euphemistic a term - can be obnoxious. And their appearance, let alone smell, may bother the overly sensitive at times. None of this rises to being a "plague" which will "ruin" a neighborhood. If that was true, why then is Central Square flooded with "ethnic" and trendy spots and their patrons while property values keep climbing?
In its original incarnation it was started to address a real or perceived racist atmosphere for Asians (presumably, in this case, people whose origins can be traced to the southeast portion of the continent - as opposed to Pakistanis, et al.) The topic was already capably addressed by those who pointed out that "haters gonna hate." Education and/or travel will always reduce the likelihood of the person experiencing them to be ignorant much less project that ignorance. And where "race" is concerned, Southeast Asians have already moved well past other non-White groups in terms of assimilating and being accepted. Were that not the case you wouldn't see what seems to be just about every other young couple in Boston, Cambridge, and Somerville comprised of a Caucasian man and an Asian woman. But go out not too far from the city and issues are still bound to arise. Friends of mine from high school days in Japan (Italian-American boy, Korean girl) went on to get married and settle in that bastion of progressive coexistence known as Weymouth. 
