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Yes, I know. If I could answer now with a solution, I would be a genius on this planet.
Psychotherapy, working out, diet, meditation, positive affirmations, a very strict regimen no stimulants, keeping the mind clean of violent, negative music/images/news/people etc etc. All of them, not just some of them. All the time, every time, every day for the rest of your life.
I don't think anyone would advocate MAID before exercising as many avenues as possible in order to prevent the need for it. That said, there are situations whereby this is the only option for that individual. The option shouldn't be excluded just because some Keto diet might help. You said something ironic here however, and that is "all the time, every time, every day for the of rest of your life"
That is ironic given the fact that you are advocating the removal of their option to end - Their own life!
Again Post No. 2 seems sufficient. What I have had to say is refute your attempts, for whatever hidden reason you may have, since you claim it is not political, at trying to make people believe that this is some dastardly government plot to euthanize the mentally ill when in fact it is exactly the opposite.
You want me to say something about the actual topic? OK. Good. I am glad Canada is taking all this time and study to try to determine what would qualify a mentally ill person to be considered competent to make the decision to proceed with MAID. It protects the mentally ill who are suicidal but who could be treated from themselves.
@Mightyqueen801,
Some people with the best intentions don’t have the skills to discriminate between reliable and unreliable sources. That’s why even college libraries have training workshops because the issue affects the quality of research papers in the classroom. When doing my master's in education, I had almost to memorize the APA (American Psychological Association) style for research papers to know what sources were appropriate to cite or not for my research on suicide among LGBT adolescents.
That’s an advanced skill that not every person learns, and that’s why we have so many problems with fake news. If the problem is infiltrating even the walls of academia, imagine the case of citizens with less education. Don’t be too hard on others because you might find that trend among your best friends.
Some people with the best intentions don’t have the skills to discriminate between reliable and unreliable sources. That’s why even college libraries have training workshops because the issue affects the quality of research papers in the classroom. When doing my master's in education, I had almost to memorize the APA (American Psychological Association) style for research papers to know what sources were appropriate to cite or not for my research on suicide among LGBT adolescents.
That’s an advanced skill that not every person learns, and that’s why we have so many problems with fake news. If the problem is infiltrating even the walls of academia, imagine the case of citizens with less education. Don’t be too hard on others because you might find that trend among your best friends.
All fine and dandy when it applies to those willing to make an effort but, when one is confronted with the avowed, oft repeated position, that a government is making MAID decisions whereupon the mentally ill as not being capable in all cases to make a cognizant and reasoned choice for themselves also; ignoring the repeated proffered proof that the 'patient' must be the one initiating the process, ALONG with the entire piece of legislation for their perusal to assure themselves of the care and safeguards taken to prevent the very thing the poster attributes as being the underlying governmental modus operendi, to then merely repeat; that it is the government of Canada seeking to kill off it's mentally ill and also, the position the mentally ill are ALL, in every single case, incapable of making a sound choice for themselves - one has no choice but to consider that person being "willfully ignorant."
Some people with the best intentions don’t have the skills to discriminate between reliable and unreliable sources. That’s why even college libraries have training workshops because the issue affects the quality of research papers in the classroom. When doing my master's in education, I had almost to memorize the APA (American Psychological Association) style for research papers to know what sources were appropriate to cite or not for my research on suicide among LGBT adolescents.
That’s an advanced skill that not every person learns, and that’s why we have so many problems with fake news. If the problem is infiltrating even the walls of academia, imagine the case of citizens with less education. Don’t be too hard on others because you might find that trend among your best friends.
This is indeed another perspective, and I may just be too jaded from too many years on CD as a poster and a moderator witnessing how people twist and manipulate information to have taken ignorance into consideration before assuming malice.
I disagree, however, that it is necessarily a matter of education. I never even attained a Bachelor's due to life circumstances irrelevant to this conversation, but I did learn through reading and self-education, and even from a long-ago elementary school course called "Fact or Opinion", to discern what I read.
I always loved the quote, "Strange as it may seem, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and formal education positively fortifies it." ~ Stephen Vizinczey. I've seen that play out time and again, and I bet you have, too.
My daughter would likely agree with you about research. She earned her PhD this past year (Education, in particular language) and a Master's in TESOL before that, and yes, I understand that it would be imperative to be able to identify which sources are reliable and which are not. Still, Mama thinks a lot of it is just common sense. When you read something that sounds somewhat off, especially a piece as slanted and biased as the article put forth in the OP, why not ask one's self, "Can this really be true? Should I investigate further to see if there is information out there to verify what I've what? Is someone trying to promote an agenda by the way this information is presented?"
I'll admit that some of my responses were likely based on emotional reaction. I'm an American living in Canada, and I've heard a fair share of idiotic perceptions my countrypersons have about the nation to our north. Further, my daughter is herself mentally ill, bipolar as well as a few other diagnoses, attempted suicide when the bipolar first manifested in her early 20s but now manages her illness well enough to live a full life and speaks up to reduce the stigma of mental illness in our society and encourage others to seek help when needed. Two subjects close to my own heart being misconstrued to promote a false agenda, coupled with my diminishing tolerance for nonsense as I approach another birthday? BAM, watch out for the Mighty Queen.
There's another quote I've found to be true, although I have no idea who said it. Many years ago, my television was on an old-movie station as I did other things in the house. I don't know what movie it was, but as it played in the background, I heard one line that stuck with me: "Stupidity has saved many a man from madness." There are those who will just pitter-patter through life, not asking questions even of their own core beliefs, absorbing bits and pieces of detritus they believe to be knowledge, and leaving trails of poop behind them as they go for others to step in, and saved by their cluelessness from falling into the abyss themselves. For examples, visit the Politics & Other Controversies forum.
At any rate, another poster and I provided sufficient factual information on this thread for anyone who is genuinely interested in learning about the complexities of the subject. That's all I can do.
Just finished reading this due to an interest in solving this profound problem. What responsibility does society have regarding human suffering?
You all sound like what goes on in my head when I think about it. The "committee" goes to work. Sigh. For every apparently sound reason in favor there is an equally solid reason against. Try to dust out the cobwebs of morality and emotion and replace them with reason and law? Can we make that work? I'm not sure we can and I'm not sure such a society would be a healthy one either.
One of the reasons at present that this occupies my mind is our gun death crisis in America while nearly fifty percent are suicides. A lot of people don't realize that. Preventing them would go a long way toward lowering what has been labeled gun violence.
This statistic just screams our need for better mental health services. I'm not sure that for the majority much can been done after the fact of intractable depression. Seems the solution to me is in building a better culture - one which promotes sound values that support natural good feelings. And that's only a piece of the neurological puzzle that is major depression.
It is apparent to me that we no longer live in a culture that supports good mental health and desire to persevere. It's hard work with today's norms to maintain a positive outlook. This has always been a human problem and currently it is complicated, I believe, by technological factors. And, as mentioned, perhaps the majority of us don't have much insight about that.
I lost a dear friend to suicide by gun and didn't have an inkling she was contemplating it other than her "normal" pessimistic presentation. She worked with me in the mental health field and being determined knew enough to hide it well. She also had decided that nothing more could be done for her - at least as far as she was willing to go.
The method of death was particularly devastating to the survivors.
For some time I worked with brain-damaged people in a medical facility. One dear old, tortured soul begged me every day to take her life. I can scarcely believe how much, after a while, I wanted to "help" her.
So, these things affect people but there appears to be no universal solution. The more global we become the more difficult it will be. What do we do with the frustration?
^Good stuff, Lodestar, and my condolences on the loss of your friend to suicide.
However, I am not sure how your post relates to the the issue of the Canadian MAiD law seeking to determine if and when mental illness is eligible.
Except, perhaps, in this:
Quote:
For some time I worked with brain-damaged people in a medical facility. One dear old, tortured soul begged me every day to take her life. I can scarcely believe how much, after a while, I wanted to "help" her.
She may not even have been eligible under MAiD, given the primary requirement of the person having to be deemed competent to understand the process--but then again, maybe she was.
We can agree that a gun should not be the only solution a person feels they have to end their pain.
All fine and dandy when it applies to those willing to make an effort but, when one is confronted with the avowed, oft repeated position, that a government is making MAID decisions whereupon the mentally ill as not being capable in all cases to make a cognizant and reasoned choice for themselves also; ignoring the repeated proffered proof that the 'patient' must be the one initiating the process, ALONG with the entire piece of legislation for their perusal to assure themselves of the care and safeguards taken to prevent the very thing the poster attributes as being the underlying governmental modus operendi, to then merely repeat; that it is the government of Canada seeking to kill off it's mentally ill and also, the position the mentally ill are ALL, in every single case, incapable of making a sound choice for themselves - one has no choice but to consider that person being "willfully ignorant."
Shorter sentences are your friend... Your post is soooo packed with straw men arguments... it's choking in straw. You are not interested in a discussion, you are here to make declarations about people who hold different opinions than yourself.
You don't understand the basic-est thing I said (you play with syntax, I play with vocabulary). My point is that regardless of the legal safeguards put in place, such a policy is in itself an aberration.
Generally, people see life through the horizon of their own experiences and then impose this template onto others. If you focus on policies and politics, you will assume that everyone else does, or should do the same.
I will spell it out one last time: regardless of the "great care and consideration", suiciding people is an awful policy. Extending that policy to mentally ill people is absolutely horrendous.
Shorter sentences are your friend... Your post is soooo packed with straw men arguments... it's choking in straw. You are not interested in a discussion, you are here to make declarations about people who hold different opinions than yourself.
You don't understand the basic-est thing I said (you play with syntax, I play with vocabulary). My point is that regardless of the legal safeguards put in place, such a policy is in itself an aberration.
Generally, people see life through the horizon of their own experiences and then impose this template onto others. If you focus on policies and politics, you will assume that everyone else does, or should do the same.
I will spell it out one last time: regardless of the "great care and consideration", suiciding people is an awful policy. Extending that policy to mentally ill people is absolutely horrendous.
I wouldn't call it a policy, but an option. A policy implies it's something imposed upon someone, which of course is not the case.
The definition indicates that "policy" can be individual, though
Quote:
a course or principle of action adopted or proposed by a government, party, business, or individual.
So it might be one person's policy that life should only ever end naturally and without assistance, and another person's policy that when life fits the parameters allowed by law, they will take the option of dying on their own terms. As it has always been, the primary factor is that MAiD is the decision of the individual alone.
Just finished reading this due to an interest in solving this profound problem. What responsibility does society have regarding human suffering?
You all sound like what goes on in my head when I think about it. The "committee" goes to work. Sigh. For every apparently sound reason in favor there is an equally solid reason against. Try to dust out the cobwebs of morality and emotion and replace them with reason and law? Can we make that work? I'm not sure we can and I'm not sure such a society would be a healthy one either.
One of the reasons at present that this occupies my mind is our gun death crisis in America while nearly fifty percent are suicides. A lot of people don't realize that. Preventing them would go a long way toward lowering what has been labeled gun violence.
This statistic just screams our need for better mental health services. I'm not sure that for the majority much can been done after the fact of intractable depression. Seems the solution to me is in building a better culture - one which promotes sound values that support natural good feelings. And that's only a piece of the neurological puzzle that is major depression.
It is apparent to me that we no longer live in a culture that supports good mental health and desire to persevere. It's hard work with today's norms to maintain a positive outlook. This has always been a human problem and currently it is complicated, I believe, by technological factors. And, as mentioned, perhaps the majority of us don't have much insight about that.
I lost a dear friend to suicide by gun and didn't have an inkling she was contemplating it other than her "normal" pessimistic presentation. She worked with me in the mental health field and being determined knew enough to hide it well. She also had decided that nothing more could be done for her - at least as far as she was willing to go.
The method of death was particularly devastating to the survivors.
For some time I worked with brain-damaged people in a medical facility. One dear old, tortured soul begged me every day to take her life. I can scarcely believe how much, after a while, I wanted to "help" her.
So, these things affect people but there appears to be no universal solution. The more global we become the more difficult it will be. What do we do with the frustration?
Your post is more thoughtful than all others, including mine. I empathize with everything you said. I also lost a relative to suicide and have been struggling with "why?".
Quote:
The firearm suicide epidemic has been growing, with the firearm suicide rate increasing 12.5% over the last decade (2010-2019) (link)
It is glaringly and painfully obvious that there is something going on, something that we never faced before on this scale. Around 20% of Americans are on some sort of psychiatric medication. This in times of the greatest prosperity known in this country!
Some of this medication helps, sometimes, and sometimes unfortunately it induces suicidal thoughts as a side effect. Yes, you can get suicidal thoughts from medication that is supposed to help you. 100%.
Mental health still doesn't get the public attention that breast cancer does, or diabetes, or... There is still a stigma tied to mental health, and that stigma comes to a large degree from lack of education on the topic.
You would expect the public health authorities to come up with a comprehensive plan to address the issue. Offering suicide as an option is awful. If you suffer of some form of mental distress, it's so much easier to give up the fight for your life and choose suicide, when the authorities offer it to you. (yes, I know, many safeguards)
Quote:
So, these things affect people but there appears to be no universal solution. The more global we become the more difficult it will be. What do we do with the frustration?
I am not an expert, but I would recommend psychotherapy with a psychotherapist that the person can relate to. If there is no connection with the therapist, it could be (almost) wasted time. Shopping around for the right therapist is vital. This is what I have done and it helped immensely.
I understand euthanasia as an act of compassion, but I think it’s tricky for the mentally ill. I suffer from depression with suicidal ideation, but the truth is that I don’t want to die but ease my suffering. From what I read, the Canadian government will require consent to be euthanized, but what sound consent can give a patient in a state of mental despair?
You have to ask for it repeatedly several times within an extended period and after consultation with the doctors
Guess, that is the safeguard
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