06-05-2010, 05:56 PM
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,882 posts, read
19,854,193 times
Reputation: 3920
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Apollonewton
Update: So i'm all moved up to Canton now
went to the dealership today to change my oil. A saleman spent about 20 minutes telling me I need to trade in for a 4WD TODAY! oh well, hard to trust a saleman, but hard to ignore him either.
You should ask him if they sell anything other than 4WD's at the dealership? And if so, why? (if everyone buys 4WD's here!). What a chump (the salesman).
06-06-2010, 12:49 PM
Location: State of Superior
8,733 posts, read
15,940,154 times
Reputation: 2869
4 WD is the best way to go for many people, and its not because they live in Michigan. I would be lost without my 4 x 4 , but, I need it due to a steep driveway, being in the woods, and for construction equipment-road building.... certainly not needed if you live in any city environment in Michigan, U.P. or Detroit..... Now, all wheel drive, thats another story, having all 4 wheels turning with power,when needed, can be a good thing, even on rain slick roads.
06-06-2010, 01:17 PM
Location: In the land that is now.
121 posts, read
175,491 times
Reputation: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Apollonewton
So, I'm moving to Michigan with my wife. Neither one of us have ever driven or lived in the snow before. I have a 4Runner with rear wheel drive. She has a lexus IS250 with 2WD. ARE WE IN TROUBLE???
We went apt hunting last week, and the people we meet pretty much scared the crap out of us. They talked about how we wont have a chance with 2WD in the Michigan winter.
Is this true?
Can't I just get snow tires?
Do I really have to trade in my car and get something with 4WD?
Does everyone have 4WD up there?
We will be in Michigan for 4 yrs per our contract...
Thank you!
It's a matter of keeping your vehicle in good repair, a full tank of gas, keeping your mind on the road and not driving too fast. When the roads are bad, slowing down and driving accordingly is the best policy.... It's all about using common sense.
When there is ice on the roads don't slam on the brakes. Slow down, and don't crowd other drivers. Braking too hard on ice can cause you to spin out into oncoming traffic or land you in a ditch and possibly hitting a tree. So use caution.
06-08-2010, 08:46 AM
Location: Chisago Lakes, Minnesota
3,816 posts, read
6,447,728 times
Reputation: 6567
I've lived up north in Petoskey for 3 years now with a rear wheel drive light pickup truck. It's very hilly in spots around here, and I haven't had one problem, so if you are any kind of decent driver you should be fine downstate.
06-09-2010, 08:17 AM
Location: Lansing, MI
17 posts, read
33,881 times
Reputation: 12
When we first moved to MI I had an S-class Mercedes (RWD). The first time it snowed and we got about 3 inches on the ground I couldn't get it up to my garage over the slightly slopped driveway, had to leave it at the driveway entrance until the snow melted. Needless to say the very next day I went and traded it in for an Escalade (AWD)
That said, as you have already seen, people here drive all kinds of vehicles and are doing just fine. If your commute involves well-traveled roads - you will have no problem at all, DOT here is taking amazing care of the roads when it comes to snow, considering how poor the state has become. And since you are on the south-east side of the state, snow is not such a big deal, anyways.
You may, however, consider buying a bigger SUV just so you can tow your boat and travel trailer
This is one of the best places for outdoor fun so at least buy a pop-up and enjoy some of the campgrounds while you are here.
06-09-2010, 08:32 AM
Location: West Michigan
12,083 posts, read
38,855,962 times
Reputation: 17006
Quote:
Originally Posted by
atlrus
When we first moved to MI I had an S-class Mercedes (RWD). The first time it snowed and we got about 3 inches on the ground I couldn't get it up to my garage over the slightly slopped driveway, had to leave it at the driveway entrance until the snow melted. Needless to say the very next day I went and traded it in for an Escalade (AWD)
A good set of snow tires would have solved the problem a lot cheaper than an Escalade.
Quote:
That said, as you have already seen, people here drive all kinds of vehicles and are doing just fine. If your commute involves well-traveled roads - you will have no problem at all, DOT here is taking amazing care of the roads when it comes to snow, considering how poor the state has become. And since you are on the south-east side of the state, snow is not such a big deal, anyways.
So true.
Quote:
You may, however, consider buying a bigger SUV just so you can tow your boat and travel trailer
This is the #1 reason for buying a truck in Michigan IMHO.
06-09-2010, 08:43 AM
877 posts, read
2,168,354 times
Reputation: 714
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Apollonewton
So, I'm moving to Michigan with my wife. Neither one of us have ever driven or lived in the snow before. I have a 4Runner with rear wheel drive. She has a lexus IS250 with 2WD. ARE WE IN TROUBLE???
We went apt hunting last week, and the people we meet pretty much scared the crap out of us. They talked about how we wont have a chance with 2WD in the Michigan winter.
Is this true?
Can't I just get snow tires?
Do I really have to trade in my car and get something with 4WD?
Does everyone have 4WD up there?
We will be in Michigan for 4 yrs per our contract...
Thank you!
90% of days you will be able to get away with RWD only, but at least 30-40 days out of the year where you can't. My advice...sell both, get a RWD Sports car and a AWD beater SUV.
06-09-2010, 11:46 PM
13 posts, read
29,995 times
Reputation: 60
Just get a set of dedicated snow tires. I drive an Accord, in northern Michigan and have no issues... other than lake effect snows and clearance.
06-10-2010, 07:00 AM
Location: State of Superior
8,733 posts, read
15,940,154 times
Reputation: 2869
Quote:
Originally Posted by
northernmichiganman
Just get a set of dedicated snow tires. I drive an Accord, in northern Michigan and have no issues... other than lake effect snows and clearance.
That little Honda would not do well in our woods, even with snow tires. same goes for a lot of rural Michigan both lower and upper. Its the mud,deep snow,rocks and ruts that get you........ You say no, I only stay on the main roads ?.... OK , but you are missing a lot of this Great State. I agree with the poster who measures a velicles real worth with its ability to pull even the most modest trailer or camper.
06-10-2010, 10:11 AM
29 posts, read
243,564 times
Reputation: 22
Well, I have a 5000lb class III hitch on my 4Runner, and I towed a Uhaul (12') trailer from Miami to MI. It was perfectly fine at 60 mi/hr on the highway and all. I never tried to push to 70 Mi/hr tho cause it was my very first time pulling a trailer.
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Travel time to work - 60 to 89 minutes (%)
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Educational Attainment - Associate degree (%)
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School Enrollment - Nursery, preschool (%)
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School Enrollment - College undergrad (%)
School Enrollment - Graduate or professional (%)
School Enrollment - Not enrolled in school (%)
School enrollment - Public schools (%)
School enrollment - Private schools (%)
School enrollment - Not enrolled (%)
Median number of rooms in houses and condos
Median number of rooms in apartments
Housing units lacking complete plumbing facilities (%)
Housing units lacking complete kitchen facilities (%)
Density of houses
Urban houses (%)
Rural houses (%)
Households with people 60 years and over (%)
Households with people 65 years and over (%)
Households with people 75 years and over (%)
Households with one or more nonrelatives (%)
Households with no nonrelatives (%)
Population in households (%)
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Nonfamily households (%)
Population in families (%)
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Mean number of bedrooms in owner occupied houses
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Mean number of bedrooms in renter occupied houses
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Mean number of vehichles in owner occupied houses
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Mortgage status - with home equity loan (%)
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Mortgage status - without a mortgage (%)
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Average family size - American Indian and Alaska Native
Average family size - Multirace
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Geographical mobility - Same house 1 year ago (%)
Geographical mobility - Moved within same county (%)
Geographical mobility - Moved from different county within same state (%)
Geographical mobility - Moved from different state (%)
Geographical mobility - Moved from abroad (%)
Place of birth - Born in state of residence (%)
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Place of birth - Native, outside of US (%)
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Housing units in structures - 1, detached (%)
Housing units in structures - 1, attached (%)
Housing units in structures - 2 (%)
Housing units in structures - 3 or 4 (%)
Housing units in structures - 5 to 9 (%)
Housing units in structures - 10 to 19 (%)
Housing units in structures - 20 to 49 (%)
Housing units in structures - 50 or more (%)
Housing units in structures - Mobile home (%)
Housing units in structures - Boat, RV, van, etc. (%)
House/condo owner moved in on average (years ago)
Renter moved in on average (years ago)
Year householder moved into unit - Moved in 1999 to March 2000 (%)
Year householder moved into unit - Moved in 1995 to 1998 (%)
Year householder moved into unit - Moved in 1990 to 1994 (%)
Year householder moved into unit - Moved in 1980 to 1989 (%)
Year householder moved into unit - Moved in 1970 to 1979 (%)
Year householder moved into unit - Moved in 1969 or earlier (%)
Means of transportation to work - Drove car alone (%)
Means of transportation to work - Carpooled (%)
Means of transportation to work - Public transportation (%)
Means of transportation to work - Bus or trolley bus (%)
Means of transportation to work - Streetcar or trolley car (%)
Means of transportation to work - Subway or elevated (%)
Means of transportation to work - Railroad (%)
Means of transportation to work - Ferryboat (%)
Means of transportation to work - Taxicab (%)
Means of transportation to work - Motorcycle (%)
Means of transportation to work - Bicycle (%)
Means of transportation to work - Walked (%)
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Working at home (%)
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Most Common Industries - Agriculture, forestry, fishing and hunting, and mining (%)
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Most Common Industries - Mining, quarrying, and oil and gas extraction (%)
Most Common Industries - Construction (%)
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Most Common Industries - Arts, entertainment, and recreation (%)
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Most Common Industries - Public administration (%)
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Most Common Occupations - Service occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Healthcare support occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Protective service occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Fire fighting and prevention, and other protective service workers including supervisors (%)
Most Common Occupations - Law enforcement workers including supervisors (%)
Most Common Occupations - Food preparation and serving related occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Building and grounds cleaning and maintenance occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Personal care and service occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Sales and office occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Sales and related occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Office and administrative support occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Natural resources, construction, and maintenance occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Farming, fishing, and forestry occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Construction and extraction occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Installation, maintenance, and repair occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production, transportation, and material moving occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Transportation occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Material moving occupations (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - Correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Federal prisons and detention centers (%)
People in Group quarters - Halfway houses (%)
People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
People in Group quarters - State prisons (%)
People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
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People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
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People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)
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went to the dealership today to change my oil. A saleman spent about 20 minutes telling me I need to trade in for a 4WD TODAY! oh well, hard to trust a saleman, but hard to ignore him either.
