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I'm not saying that there isn't some truth to it, but there are also larger issues at play here. It's not just a "Minnesota" problem. And yes, I do think it's partly an age thing. I have friends from all over the country, who have in turn relocated all over the country, and they have -- every single one of them -- commented on how it is harder to make friends as they've grown older (these are mostly people in their 30s).
I'm not saying that it's always easy to make friends (that's true of any place, by the way), or that a new arrival is going to have an instant circle of friends, but some people are saying they've lived here 40 years and not made many friends! That's not a typical experience. It probably is tougher in Minnesota than in some places, but if someone is so quick to write off the residents of an entire state as "lifeless" than I think it's safe to say that that person is engaging in stereotypes.
And the whole discussion about "natives" is kind of annoying. Who is a native? What's the working definition? Do you get to be a "native" if you're born in the state but then move elsewhere? What about people who are not from MN but move there as adults and then settle down? When does one get to become Minnesotan? Possibly kind of a tangent, but I don't think a "local" has to be born and raised in a state. In my experience it takes about a year to feel at home in a place, but by the end of two years I feel like a local.
Minneapolis has many, many people from other states and countries, so even if your only other friends were people born and raised elsewhere you'd still have a wide range of potential friends.
I don't discount the fact that people have had difficult experiences, but given that I've met many new friends as an adult, as have my Minnesotan friends and family members, I don't think it's unreasonable to jump to the conclusion that there are plenty of people out there who are open to friendships with people outside of family or old classmates.
Sigh. I give up. I'll start packing now...Aylalou, can I hitch a ride with you?
P.S. Isabel, I wouldn't be concerned about your social life when you get here. Like I said previously, grad school is a whole different way of being and things you never dreamed up will present themselves.
Latchkey, I wasn't trying to discount your opinion, it's just that I wonder if some of the problem here is that everyone is coming at this from a different perspective? I'm okay with a small group of good friends, and a wider group of people I like and am friendly with. My friends are from different areas of my life (and most of my best friends are from grad school and are not in MN) and so I don't have a single "group" of friends. I think it would be harder to form a new group from scratch, and I can see that it would be hard to break into a specific circle of established friends with a long shared history. Maybe that's what the references to "breaking in" are about? On the level of making individual friends, though, I think it's a different situation.
Ya'll are speaking as if this is New York or something? Have you been there? Have you experienced the aloof and almost rude nature of New Yorkers? This is a GREAT state! I agree with the comment... "What constitutes a 'native'?" Honestly, there is such an influx of new residents to every state nowadays because of jobs and whatnot. When do you truly become a native? Is there a time frame? Do you require to have family in said state as well?
I was born in Massachussetts. Raised there until I was five. Moved to MN for 6 years. Back to the east coast for another 2. Back to MN for another 10. And then off onto my own adventure as I had mentioned with Cali, TX, and India. I'd say even Californians have a tougher barrier to break through than Minnesotans. Maybe the long MN winters have something to do with it as people tend to stay inside more and have gatherings with their close friends indoors. ?? I dunno.... I don't think my perspective is biased. I've lived all over! I've been required to pick up and start over at a new school, new community, new job, so many times. I guess you could say its a skill that has to be developed to brave the unknown and approach people. If you stay in your comfort zone you're entire life, your bubble, than of course it would be difficult to branch out. But I don't think this is specific to MN. I would say it happens everywhere. We're all human. Its a part of human nature to group.
I think the ability to make new friendships and join circles of friends depends upon the individual seeking such. I agree that some circles of friends are harder to break into than others but usually those are the type of people that are still stuck in a high school "clique-y" mentality. And that's going to be everywhere. As for myself, I welcome and embrace new people and friendships at every opportunity. Its true that friendships are transient. We grow and change. Others do as well.
The focus should be about the people and the lives you were able to touch while on this earth. Everybody has a different story... A different path. How could anyone reject a new person with an exciting life adventure to tell? The people that do are sad in my opinion because they're floating through life in the 'safe' zone.
See that's the problem right there. Friendship fairly transient - no not genuine friendships. You may be one who is happy with acquaintanceship. I still have friends in New York City/New Jersey even though I left there 40 years ago. They have remained steadfast and loyal but I don't get that here, and they take friendship very seriously.
Europeans also regard friendship in a serious manner and don't take it lightly, but that is a horse of another color since we're speaking about Minnesota and comparing it with other states.
Now as far as attractions in the Twin Cities, I agree. There are many which I have cited on numerous posts. Were it not for this one lack (which I don't think is any small thing) I wouldn't dream of leaving this beautiful area.
I think most people (in any place) have a blend of friends. They have their good friends for life, they have their friends who share common interests and needs at certain times, they have casual friends, they have acquaintances. That's true of anywhere. I've lived other places, too, and don't think that there is a difference in quality of friendship in one place or another. I think if someone grew up in MN and then moved to NJ they'd say the exact same thing. My friends (and yes, I take these friendships seriously) from all parts of the country have had similar experiences.
I don't know that it can be both; can Minnesotans not take friendships seriously or can they take them so seriously that they only have time for the friends they first met when they were kids? If so, I'm in trouble; I don't know most of my childhood friends now. That doesn't mean I'm not a loyal, steadfast friend, or don't value my friendships.
I think it does, however, take time to develop a strong, lasting, loyal and steadfast friendship. You can have an instant casual friendship, but it does take time to develop a deeper relationship built on shared experiences, trust, good times, and bad times. Maybe that's the Minnesotan in me talking, but I don't think that's a bad bad thing. It doesn't mean that the quick friendships are less valid or "real," but it's inevitable that some will end up as more transient and casual while others will be more permanent. It's unrealistic to think that every friendship is going to last forever, or that every acquaintance is going to become a best friend. If you're lucky you make some acquaintances, find some casual friends, develop stronger relationships with the people you really connect with, and eventually you have a big circle of acquaintances (who can still really come through for you when you need them), casual friends, good friends, and a couple of best friends.
None of this to say that it's easy to quickly find a group of good friends in the Twin Cities, but it's not as impossible as some would make it sound, either.
Hmmm...fully acknowledging the validity of people's observations and experiences, I still think it is difficult for people to recognize the degree to which their challenges with friendship in the TC might be due to situational or personality factors (for example)...
Well, let me just say for the record that while some responses here are a bit worrisome, many are very encouraging (thanks!) and leave me optimistic that I will make friends in the TC at some point over the next five years, hopefully sooner rather than later!
This thread has made it clear to me that I just need to keep an open mind and try different things and see where that leads.
Regarding Uptown_Urbanist's comment regarding the transience of friendship, I think she was making a general point, not about the TC specifically. It's true that as people grow and their lifestyles change, friendships also change and often it's inevitable that some friendships will not last, even if they were good friendships at the time. It's kind of sad but just part of life.
What you say below is encouraging. I guess the only thing I might disagree with is the idea that most people have a blend of friends...to me it sounds more like an ideal scenario, but perhaps I am different than most people in that I don't have this. Although come to think of it, it wouldn't necessarily be my ideal anyway. As I've mentioned already, I am the kind of person who really does like my alone time, as well as plenty of time with my significant other, whom I consider my closest friend. I would like to have a good friend or two (not necessarily "best friend") that I could get together with semi regularly and have over for dinner and do things with, and some decent acquaintances for more casual/less frequent meet-ups (e.g., for coffee, etc). Something like this would suit me fine...so since my goal is relatively modest, I think I have a good chance at being successful in achieving it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist
I think most people (in any place) have a blend of friends. They have their good friends for life, they have their friends who share common interests and needs at certain times, they have casual friends, they have acquaintances. That's true of anywhere. I've lived other places, too, and don't think that there is a difference in quality of friendship in one place or another. I think if someone grew up in MN and then moved to NJ they'd say the exact same thing. My friends (and yes, I take these friendships seriously) from all parts of the country have had similar experiences.
I don't know that it can be both; can Minnesotans not take friendships seriously or can they take them so seriously that they only have time for the friends they first met when they were kids? If so, I'm in trouble; I don't know most of my childhood friends now. That doesn't mean I'm not a loyal, steadfast friend, or don't value my friendships.
I think it does, however, take time to develop a strong, lasting, loyal and steadfast friendship. You can have an instant casual friendship, but it does take time to develop a deeper relationship built on shared experiences, trust, good times, and bad times. Maybe that's the Minnesotan in me talking, but I don't think that's a bad bad thing. It doesn't mean that the quick friendships are less valid or "real," but it's inevitable that some will end up as more transient and casual while others will be more permanent. It's unrealistic to think that every friendship is going to last forever, or that every acquaintance is going to become a best friend. If you're lucky you make some acquaintances, find some casual friends, develop stronger relationships with the people you really connect with, and eventually you have a big circle of acquaintances (who can still really come through for you when you need them), casual friends, good friends, and a couple of best friends.
None of this to say that it's easy to quickly find a group of good friends in the Twin Cities, but it's not as impossible as some would make it sound, either.
I think most people (in any place) have a blend of friends. They have their good friends for life, they have their friends who share common interests and needs at certain times, they have casual friends, they have acquaintances. That's true of anywhere. I've lived other places, too, and don't think that there is a difference in quality of friendship in one place or another. I think if someone grew up in MN and then moved to NJ they'd say the exact same thing. My friends (and yes, I take these friendships seriously) from all parts of the country have had similar experiences.
I don't know that it can be both; can Minnesotans not take friendships seriously or can they take them so seriously that they only have time for the friends they first met when they were kids? If so, I'm in trouble; I don't know most of my childhood friends now. That doesn't mean I'm not a loyal, steadfast friend, or don't value my friendships.
I think it does, however, take time to develop a strong, lasting, loyal and steadfast friendship. You can have an instant casual friendship, but it does take time to develop a deeper relationship built on shared experiences, trust, good times, and bad times. Maybe that's the Minnesotan in me talking, but I don't think that's a bad bad thing. It doesn't mean that the quick friendships are less valid or "real," but it's inevitable that some will end up as more transient and casual while others will be more permanent. It's unrealistic to think that every friendship is going to last forever, or that every acquaintance is going to become a best friend. If you're lucky you make some acquaintances, find some casual friends, develop stronger relationships with the people you really connect with, and eventually you have a big circle of acquaintances (who can still really come through for you when you need them), casual friends, good friends, and a couple of best friends.
None of this to say that it's easy to quickly find a group of good friends in the Twin Cities, but it's not as impossible as some would make it sound, either.
Of course people have all kinds of friendships and of course if one was born here and formed early relationships they would most certainly hold. I am speaking, in general, of transplants who have to work harder here than many other places to gain access, and even at that, it's a crapshoot. There is some kind of lack of connection here that I don't see elsewhere - of course not in all cases and especially not if one comes here to attend college because then you meet people from all over.
Many times it's like banging your head against a wall. I am a member of meetup.com and I can tell you that the Minnesotans who attend are polite and converse, but there is an enthusiasm and more of a warmth in those I meet coming from other places.
I think you, Isabel, will do fine here from what you describe above. I do have 3 very close friends that I've made here - one from Minnesota, one from Texas and one from Canada. As I will repeat, I love the Twin Cities and in some ways I will be very sorry to leave. There is only one other place I prefer - the Pacific NW.
What you say below is encouraging. I guess the only thing I might disagree with is the idea that most people have a blend of friends...to me it sounds more like an ideal scenario, but perhaps I am different than most people in that I don't have this. Although come to think of it, it wouldn't necessarily be my ideal anyway. As I've mentioned already, I am the kind of person who really does like my alone time, as well as plenty of time with my significant other, whom I consider my closest friend. I would like to have a good friend or two (not necessarily "best friend") that I could get together with semi regularly and have over for dinner and do things with, and some decent acquaintances for more casual/less frequent meet-ups (e.g., for coffee, etc). Something like this would suit me fine...so since my goal is relatively modest, I think I have a good chance at being successful in achieving it!
I think significant others absolutely count as a "best friend." (perhaps a misleading phrase, as I think your "closest friend" explains it better) I think your goals sound very reasonable. And although I know it varies by program, department, and specific circumstances, my closest friends (after my husband) are from graduate school. I don't think you're going to have problems meeting enough people to feel part of the community, and I'm sure you'll meet a few people who will continue to remain a part of your life for years to come, wherever you end up living in the future.
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