Information on Outlying Suburbs (Minneapolis, St. Paul: apartment, rental homes, loft)

[PhDCandidate]

I am doing a little preliminary digging regarding a potential move that my wife and I will be making once I figure out where I will be going to graduate school at. As it stands now, we have about five real options (Denver; Iowa City, Iowa; Seattle; Lexington, Kentucky; Minneapolis, MN) and I'm trying to find out about each of them. University of Minnesota is one of the schools I am really excited about and I'm definitely interested in the area.

Currently, we live in Indianapolis, are newly married (two months and counting) and are both relatively young (she's 23 and I'll be 29 in a couple of months). I am trying to find something that is within decent commuting distance of Minneapolis (45 minutes to an hour), but I don't want to live in the city or immediate suburbs that have become run down over recent years which I hear is a big problem.

Based upon the digging I've done and the limited time I've spent out in the area, I put together a working list of places to look into which includes the following (in no particular order).
-Rogers, MN
-Corcoran, MN
-Waconia, MN
-Shorewood, MN
-Minnetonka, MN
-Lakeville, MN
-Eagan, MN (not sure if this is a good area or not...I've heard conflicting opinions)
-Mahtomedi, MN
-Stillwater, MN
-Cottage Grove, MN
-Hastings, MN
-Apple Valley, MN

We are looking mostly for rental homes, although if we can find a nice apartment, condo or townhome to rent, that is fine as well. It does not have to be a formal rental community or anything like that as we are open to whatever our options might be. I grew up in a very small town (150-250 people roughly depending on whether you count the people who lived just outside of town, etc) so living in a rural area does not bother me. Actually I prefer it in many ways. We also previously lived in Michigan so bitterly cold winters and lots of snow are things we (my wife more so than myself since she grew up there and I grew up here in Indiana) are accustomed to.

We would like to be in a somewhat upper middle class area with low crime and a homogeneous cultural background (no racial tension, no militant minorities which are both problems in the neighborhood next to the one we currently live in). Diversity is not something we feel is absolutely necessary in a community but it's not a bad thing either so long as everyone is respectful and no one is pushing for special treatment regardless of who they are.

After reading over the forums, we are something of an oddity since elementary and secondary schools are not a major concern for us since we intend upon home schooling our children when and if we have them.

If anyone has any suggestions or advice, especially regarding specific apartment or town home communities to look at, or if any of the realtors on the list have any advice for us, please let me know. I don't mind receiving private messages at all if that is easier for anyone. Thank you for your time and your help.

[golfgal]

From your list I would cross off Cottage Grove, it isn't a bad area, just that there are better options closer and around there. Traffic on the north side of the cities is much worse than traffic coming from the south, with the exception of 35W,into Minneapolis so I would stay away from Rogers and Corcoran for that reason. Everywhere else on your list is fine, will have exactly what you are looking for, including Eagan, which is a lovely area, great location, etc.

If you want a more rural setting and are willing to drive 45-60 minutes into Minneapolis you might want to look into Cannon Falls, Northfield, Afton, Lakeland, or Marine on the St. Croix.

[Cruz Azul Guy]

First, it is debatable whether or not traffic from the north side of the cities is worse than traffic from the south. From my experiences traffic has been heaviest in places south of the cities like 35E and 35W going into the cities from the south, 62, 494 and 169, all are terrible during rush hour.

Second, I'm not in agreement with your assessment of the cities and first ring suburbs being run down. I actually find life to be of a higher quality in my city neighborhood than when I lived out in the suburbs due to convenience and being able to take advantage of all the city has to offer on a daily basis. There are alot of really nice neighborhoods around the University of Minnesota where you won't have to worry about wasting so much time commuting. If you really want to live far away and commute in and waste 10 hours each week by all means, but I think you'll probably regret the decision.

[PhDCandidate]

Originally Posted by Slig

First, it is debatable whether or not traffic from the north side of the cities is worse than traffic from the south. From my experiences traffic has been heaviest in places south of the cities like 35E and 35W going into the cities from the south, 62, 494 and 169, all are terrible during rush hour.

The traffic sucks no matter which way you're coming from seems to be the general consensus of everyone I know who has spent any amount of time up there.

Second, I'm not in agreement with your assessment of the cities and first ring suburbs being run down.

Perhaps "run down" is a poor choice of words. I've been in the area and from what I've seen (admittedly only a fraction) it reminds me a lot of the areas in Indianapolis that make me wish I'd moved about 10 miles further west than where we chose. In other words, it's not downtown Detroit but it's not somewhere I want to live.

I actually find life to be of a higher quality in my city neighborhood than when I lived out in the suburbs due to convenience and being able to take advantage of all the city has to offer on a daily basis.

I find exactly the opposite. I happen to like suburban life, although I would chose to live in the country if that was a viable alternative but due to the sprawling behemoth that is Minneapolis, it's not. Honestly, I've lived in a lot of major urban areas (DC, Detroit, Indianapolis, Buffalo (sort of....long story)) and I can't say that I've found any significant difference in convenience or opportunity between living in a decent suburb and living in a loft in the inner city. But perhaps I am missing something so could you please tell me what you are referring to Minneapolis as having to offer on a daily basis?

There are alot of really nice neighborhoods around the University of Minnesota where you won't have to worry about wasting so much time commuting. If you really want to live far away and commute in and waste 10 hours each week by all means, but I think you'll probably regret the decision.

I don't see it as wasting my time if it puts me in a more prosperous and safer area. Granted, I have absolutely no problem shooting some piece of ghetto trash to protect my myself, my family or my property (in the case of the latter, doing under the auspices of protecting "myself") but I would prefer not to have to do so because of all the headache associated with it. The most effective way of doing this is to live in areas with a minimum of people like that.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by PhDCandidate

I don't see it as wasting my time if it puts me in a more prosperous and safer area. Granted, I have absolutely no problem shooting some piece of ghetto trash to protect my myself, my family or my property (in the case of the latter, doing under the auspices of protecting "myself") but I would prefer not to have to do so because of all the headache associated with it. The most effective way of doing this is to live in areas with a minimum of people like that.

Ghetto trash in the Twin Cities? Please.

I suspect you'll find that the Twin Cities are quite different from the other larger midwestern metro areas you've lived in, and some of the assumptions you seem to be making about in-town and inner-ring suburban neighborhoods simply do not hold true for either Minneapolis or St. Paul.

I would suggest doing significantly mroe research and then performing a complete re-evaluation. Don't map your previous experiences to all cities ... as a Twin Cities native who now lives in Atlanta, the differences between the attitudes and lifestyles you find inside different metro areas are sometimes HUGE even if they might look similar on the surface, and I think you're making some seriously misguided assumptions.

[Cruz Azul Guy]

Originally Posted by PhDCandidate

But perhaps I am missing something so could you please tell me what you are referring to Minneapolis as having to offer on a daily basis?

Here are a few things I have now with city life that I didn't in the suburbs:

1. Walkability - where I live now it is a short walk to several parks, bars, restaurants, coffee shops, convenience stores, supermarkets, barbershops, libraries and schools, the gym and other shopping.

2. Access to public transportation - I walk out my door and there is a bus stop within 200 feet and I'm a few short blocks away from a light rail station. I never worry about parking or driving to places like downtown, the airport and the mall of america because of the great access I have to public transportation.

3. Diversity - it depends how you feel about it I guess. I grew up in suburbs that were 90+% white and it was a rude awakening when I got into the real world of diverse races and cultures. I personally find diverse areas much more interesting and hence, less bland. My suburb neighborhoods were completely white and middle class. Where I live now there are lower class, middle class, upper class, white, black, Native American, Asian, Hispanic, gays, straights, etc. and the cool this is that this neighborhood is much more tightly knit than my previous ones. Which brings me to:

4. Sense of neighborhood - I've never been so involved with my neighborhood than I am now and it's hard not to. We all keep in contact with each other through email, phone, facebook, etc. There is a neighborhood organization where we can get involved with various events and activities. Our block has regular meetings and we always have a very high turnout for national night out. I feel that the sense of community is much greater here than the suburbs I lived in.

5. Markets within reach - not to say these don't exist in the suburbs but they are few and far between. Where I live now I am within walking distance of a farmer's market, a Hispanic market called Mercado Central and the Midtown Global Market.

6. Convenience - I alluded to this earlier but buying in the city meant my home would place me right in between where I study and where I work. This saves me several hours of commuting each week which I'm able to allocate to spending more time with my family, etc. Personally I think time saved from shortening commute times is really underrated. Maybe I value time more than other people, I don't know.

7. More indepedantly owned businesses, more diversity in architecture - This is more of a personal preference but I like not living in an area filled with cookie cutter townhomes placed awkwardly in a labrinth of windy roads. The architecture in Minneapolis/St. Paul is much more varied and, in my opinion, much less of an eye sore. Also, I value being able to be close to more small, independantly owned businesses and not have to rely on big boxes and chain restaurants and stores. I'm not saying that these don't exist in the suburbs and that there aren't big boxes and chains in the city, but there is definitely more independantly owned businesses and ma and pa shops in the city whereas the suburbs generally have more big boxes and chains. You may or may not agree with me on this one but for me this is a big deal.

8. Less desolate feeling. I hate going to parks in the suburbs because they're always empty. I love walking to the parks by my house and see them full of people playing sports, having a picnic or taking their kids to play on the playground. Once again, maybe this has just been my experience, but it is definitely something my wife and I have both noticed when comparing parks in the suburbs to city parks.

I don't see it as wasting my time if it puts me in a more prosperous and safer area.

This may be your perception more than anything else. I haven't been subject to crime any more from living in the city than I was when I was living in the suburbs, and my lifestyle hasn't changed at all. My wife and I take walks in our city neighborhood at night and feel perfectly safe. We both take public transportation regularly to various parts of the city and have never had any safety issues. More prosperous? Have you seen the neighborhoods around Lake of Isles, Lake Calhoun and Lake Harriet? If you don't find that to be prosperous than you may need to more specifically define what you find to be "prosperous."

[uptown_urbanist]

I think you should visit the Twin Cities and spend some time in them before you make these sweeping assumptions. Some of the nicest, most upscale (and most expensive) neighborhoods are in the core cities themselves, and some of the outer ring suburbs have some run-down houses.

Also, from someone who has been there, done that, for graduate school, you're going to be spending a LOT of time on campus, especially at the beginning of your coursework. Why not live closer in? And, like it or not, you're going to experience diversity and city life on campus.

And, for that matter, many of the area's prosperous and safe neighborhoods are within city limits, so this artificial city/suburb concept doesn't really ring true in the Twin Cities. Neighborhoods such as Prospect Park in Minneapolis (near the U campus, popular with University faculty and somewhat upscale) and St. Anthony Park neighborhood in St. Paul, right by the St. Paul campus and also popular with faculty are upscale and nice; St. Anthony Park in particular might be of interest.

Be prepared for some culture shock, too.

Why not live in a perfectly safe, nice, upscale neighborhood near campus for a few years, then move out to the whitest outer 'burbs later on?

And maybe I missed it, but is budget an issue?

[StilltheSame]

I would also suggest you strongly reconsider the Twin Cities. It may not be what you are looking for.

First, the cities first and second ring are what I would consider somewhat surburban if you are truly from a large metro area. If a more remote/ rural area is your idea of suburban then that's a different matter. This area is unique in my opinion because there are tons, and I mean tons of great communities within or close to the city each with a different vibe and feel - which offers great variety and choices. I often tell people that there is a pleasant surprise around every corner. Living within 10 miles of MInneapolis is my max for suburban life - any farther would be too remote and boring - but that's me.

Crime is ridiculously low here. Coming from a large metropolitan area, your concern about housing, value and safety is really misplaced here - other cities perhaps, but not here.

[Isaysos]

Originally Posted by PhDCandidate

I am doing a little preliminary digging regarding a potential move that my wife and I will be making once I figure out where I will be going to graduate school at. As it stands now, we have about five real options (Denver; Iowa City, Iowa; Seattle; Lexington, Kentucky; Minneapolis, MN) and I'm trying to find out about each of them. University of Minnesota is one of the schools I am really excited about and I'm definitely interested in the area.

Currently, we live in Indianapolis, are newly married (two months and counting) and are both relatively young (she's 23 and I'll be 29 in a couple of months). I am trying to find something that is within decent commuting distance of Minneapolis (45 minutes to an hour), but I don't want to live in the city or immediate suburbs that have become run down over recent years which I hear is a big problem.

Based upon the digging I've done and the limited time I've spent out in the area, I put together a working list of places to look into which includes the following (in no particular order).
-Rogers, MN
-Corcoran, MN
-Waconia, MN
-Shorewood, MN
-Minnetonka, MN
-Lakeville, MN
-Eagan, MN (not sure if this is a good area or not...I've heard conflicting opinions)
-Mahtomedi, MN
-Stillwater, MN
-Cottage Grove, MN
-Hastings, MN
-Apple Valley, MN

We are looking mostly for rental homes, although if we can find a nice apartment, condo or townhome to rent, that is fine as well. It does not have to be a formal rental community or anything like that as we are open to whatever our options might be. I grew up in a very small town (150-250 people roughly depending on whether you count the people who lived just outside of town, etc) so living in a rural area does not bother me. Actually I prefer it in many ways. We also previously lived in Michigan so bitterly cold winters and lots of snow are things we (my wife more so than myself since she grew up there and I grew up here in Indiana) are accustomed to.

We would like to be in a somewhat upper middle class area with low crime and a homogeneous cultural background (no racial tension, no militant minorities which are both problems in the neighborhood next to the one we currently live in). Diversity is not something we feel is absolutely necessary in a community but it's not a bad thing either so long as everyone is respectful and no one is pushing for special treatment regardless of who they are.

After reading over the forums, we are something of an oddity since elementary and secondary schools are not a major concern for us since we intend upon home schooling our children when and if we have them.

If anyone has any suggestions or advice, especially regarding specific apartment or town home communities to look at, or if any of the realtors on the list have any advice for us, please let me know. I don't mind receiving private messages at all if that is easier for anyone. Thank you for your time and your help.

I'm confused about this question. You need to live in the far flug suburbs to experience this? I would suggest checking out many neighborhoods in the western area of St. Paul (Highland Park, St. Anthony (by the U of M St. Paul Campus) etc. I think you would be very suprised. Many of the neighborhoods in that area are more "livable" in my opinion and you dont have to commute in. I think I would rather poke my eyes out with a knife than make the commute from a place like Waconia to the U every day. That would be very stressfull and a huge waste of my time. Make the commute yourself in the morning, you'll see what I mean. Been there, done that, not worth it at all.

[Robert98]

I lived in Minnetonka and St. Louis Park my whole life. Loved it. My wife grew up in Downtown Seattle and hates suburban neighborhoods. We compromised and bought a condo on the edge of downtown near St. Anthony Falls. Now I can't imagine living on a boring residential street. I have not had any problems with people or crime. I love the activity. I say keep an open mind to city living. (See Slig's list)