Are outsiders ruining Montana? (Missoula, Bozeman: to buy, wage, living in)

[MountainBiking]

Greetings.

I just got back from Montana about a week ago as my brother-in-law [an outsider from SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA like myself] purchased a house on 20 acres in Whitefish almost a month ago. I helped him out remodeling the place and with furnishing. People were super cool and friendly to us and I didn't see locals rolling their eyes at us at gas stations while noticing the California plates. We didn't view folks in Montana being inferior or 'hicks' or whatever negative terms are used. My brother-in-law purchased thousands of dollars in remodeling/repair supplies, appliances and in furniture, locally, in Kalispell, not to mention gasoline, meals, groceries, souvenirs and other things locally. The locals gladly accepted our money with a smile. And before all of that the realtor was undoubtedly happy about her commission when the parcel was sold weeks ago. With that said I hate to break it to some of you: as long as 'outsiders' can buy land, food, lodging and services in Montana the people will go. There's nothing you can do about it. Put to rest your resentment. Thank you Montana for your hospitality. You truly are a special place. Can't wait to return!

-Cheers.

[Stephan_K]

Originally Posted by MountainBiking

Greetings.

I just got back from Montana about a week ago as my brother-in-law [an outsider from SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA like myself] purchased a house on 20 acres in Whitefish almost a month ago. I helped him out remodeling the place and with furnishing. People were super cool and friendly to us and I didn't see locals rolling their eyes at us at gas stations while noticing the California plates. We didn't view folks in Montana being inferior or 'hicks' or whatever negative terms are used. My brother-in-law purchased thousands of dollars in remodeling/repair supplies, appliances and in furniture, locally, in Kalispell, not to mention gasoline, meals, groceries, souvenirs and other things locally. The locals gladly accepted our money with a smile. And before all of that the realtor was undoubtedly happy about her commission when the parcel was sold weeks ago. With that said I hate to break it to some of you: as long as 'outsiders' can buy land, food, lodging and services in Montana the people will go. There's nothing you can do about it. Put to rest your resentment. Thank you Montana for your hospitality. You truly are a special place. Can't wait to return!

-Cheers.

Your SoCal brother-in-law should fit right in Whitefish..... make sure he lobbies the local gov to raise the local sales tax they impose to further help pay for the things he thinks are necessary and missing in Whitefish. After all that seems to be the "in" thing to do for the SoCal folks in Whitefish.....

[MountainBiking]

He likes Whitefish just the way it is. When in Rome...

[Stephan_K]

Originally Posted by MountainBiking

He likes Whitefish just the way it is. When in Rome...

And that's what they all said when they first moved there. I hope your right with the When in Rome statement...... But the jury's still out though.

[Threerun]

The family went for a hike up Refrigerator Canyon trail today. When we were at the trailhead and getting our packs on, my wife noticed a young man take a water bottle from the back of his truck, walk over to another car with California tags, and standing awfully close to the gas cap of the car.

My wife swears he was pouring water down his tank. I didn't witness it so I can't say for sure.

If it is true- that is common, plain and simple.

[snofarmer]

Vandal,

There goes the neighborhood.

I thought Montanans were more moral and respected someones property.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by WyoEagle

ElkHunter, all gray wolves are the same species, period. The ones reintroduced are the same subspecies that lived in the Rockies before. This Canadian gray wolf argument is a fallacy created by extreme hunting groups and ranching interests. You look at any literature on wolves not written by those groups and you can see that is the same species.

Great Danes and Chihuahuas and Pointers and Toy Poodles are all the same species, domestic dog. That doesn't make them alike, or even reasonably comparable. (And since they're interfertile with all types of wolves and coyotes, a genetic argument could be made that NONE of these are different species at all, just subspecies, which is to say, breeds.)

200 pound ponies and 2000 pound draft horses are the same species too. Try feeding even a single draft horse on the scrub pasture that can support a herd of ponies, and you'll quickly figure out why environment matters, and selects for different breeds.

We've confused the issue with wolves by calling them separate species, when in fact they ARE all one species, but different "breeds" -- as we'd recognise if they were domestic animals. And like dog breeds, they're not randomly interchangeable -- you don't expect a frail granny to handle a giant breed, why would you expect the timber wolf's native ecosystem to support the big Canadian wolves?

Point is, 50 pound timber wolves are not the same "breed" as 150 pound Canadian wolves even if they are the same species.

[snofarmer]

While I agree with most of your post but
what "breed" is this "Canadian wolves"?
A Timber Wolf can weight 150lbs, a little more than the 50lbs you state.

Originally Posted by Reziac

Great Danes and Chihuahuas and Pointers and Toy Poodles are all the same species, domestic dog. That doesn't make them alike, or even reasonably comparable. (And since they're interfertile with all types of wolves and coyotes, a genetic argument could be made that NONE of these are different species at all, just subspecies, which is to say, breeds.)

200 pound ponies and 2000 pound draft horses are the same species too. Try feeding even a single draft horse on the scrub pasture that can support a herd of ponies, and you'll quickly figure out why environment matters, and selects for different breeds.

We've confused the issue with wolves by calling them separate species, when in fact they ARE all one species, but different "breeds" -- as we'd recognise if they were domestic animals. And like dog breeds, they're not randomly interchangeable -- you don't expect a frail granny to handle a giant breed, why would you expect the timber wolf's native ecosystem to support the big Canadian wolves?

Point is, 50 pound timber wolves are not the same "breed" as 150 pound Canadian wolves even if they are the same species.

Back to my previous post.


"There goes the neighborhood.

I thought Montanans were more moral and respected someones property".

One bad apple or 2 does not make for this generalization to be true does it?

No.
Same can be said for folks who rein from other areas.
So instead of snarling and kicking your boot in the dirt why not shake there hand and introduce your self?

[ElkHunter]

Originally Posted by Threerun

The family went for a hike up Refrigerator Canyon trail today. When we were at the trailhead and getting our packs on, my wife noticed a young man take a water bottle from the back of his truck, walk over to another car with California tags, and standing awfully close to the gas cap of the car.

My wife swears he was pouring water down his tank. I didn't witness it so I can't say for sure.

If it is true- that is common, plain and simple.

Are you saying it's common for people to vandalize out of state plated cars?

I've never seen it.

[Threerun]

No, I'm definately not. I'm only pointing out something my wife thinks may have happened, and it was to an out of state car.

I would hope it was totally innocent. But it was a late teen/early twenty-something lad, and they are sometimes prone to bouts of stupidity.

I tried to be as nice as I could about it, but I do know for a fact that there is a lot of resentment in some people around these parts for folks from the Sunshine State. In fact some if it borders on downright hatred. That's not heresay or speculation, that's downright fact.

Hey- we had had folks in WV feel that way with Balto/D.C. folks buying up pristine forested land in WV, once used by locals for hunting. There were a lot of issues with local ruffians burning down cabins and second homes- especially in the Potomac Highlands of WV.

Stuff like this does happen. Ain't saying it's right, and ain't saying this kid on Sunday did anything wrong. But what business does he have hugging another persons car, by the gas cap so no one else can see what he's doing?