11-20-2008, 08:06 AM
Location: Montana
1,219 posts, read
3,169,841 times
Reputation: 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NewLtDad
Dear Mr. Timberwolf,
Heh heh...
That's what the smell is!
Yup, what's been happening is very similar to what the southerners call carpetbaggers. I think it will slow up with this economy in the state it is in, at least for a time. (a burdon for some, a relief for others.)
It's gone on and on in other threads.. Sorry if my post offended, but in the Bozeman area it seems like 2/3's of the influx (40% population increase in the last 10 years) is from SoCal, and the town's feel has gone downhill in my opinion...
Good luck in your endeavor.
-TW-
11-20-2008, 10:57 AM
Location: across the street
33 posts, read
97,435 times
Reputation: 23
That is great information. It looks to me like they got the place about 6 years ago. People have to have a reason to go somewhere, and you either have to be familiar with who goes there, or draw another group there. The building, while "old, maybe quiant" might be falling down due to age. It happens to all of us. I hate to see someone struggle. If we take a chance at things, we might struggle from time to time. I assume the owners live upstairs? is all of upstairs unoccupied? does it have potential?
11-20-2008, 11:03 AM
Location: across the street
33 posts, read
97,435 times
Reputation: 23
So, tw, you have people coming in and trying to make changes when locals are comfortable the way things are? criticizing the locals way of doing things? disturbing the comfort zone? Well, that is not the way to treat people. I have travelled all over, and people need to learn things from every place they go. The bar/restaurant is interesting, and towns need a place they can meet their friends, throw back a few, and relax. gets a person out of the house. lets them share a ball game together. so, tw, you know much about this place, Borden's?
11-21-2008, 07:21 AM
Location: Montana
1,219 posts, read
3,169,841 times
Reputation: 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NewLtDad
So, tw, you have people coming in and trying to make changes when locals are comfortable the way things are? criticizing the locals way of doing things? disturbing the comfort zone? Well, that is not the way to treat people. I have travelled all over, and people need to learn things from every place they go. The bar/restaurant is interesting, and towns need a place they can meet their friends, throw back a few, and relax. gets a person out of the house. lets them share a ball game together. so, tw, you know much about this place, Borden's?
We do get a lot of people looking to "modernize" Montana. Ironic that people move here and buy up property to "get away" from it all, and end up bringing whatever it is they run from here. Not that Montana has no problems, we have our share of drunks, druggies, criminals etc... It just doesn't seem as bad because we don't have the population that other areas do.
As for how I get my perception, I've seen the same changes in CO, and hope that it doesn't get as bad here in MT.
I've traveled a bit in my day also.. I was born in western CO and raised between CO, MT, and a couple years in IL. (long story) When I was in the service I saw more of the country and a tiny slice of the world. I just ended up where home was.
I don't know Bordens, but I've seen a lot of friendly places change over the years. Some good, some sad. I don't go to the bars much anymore, so to me it seems like things change faster, as you don't always see the same friendly faces like in the old days.
Sounds like you'll do just fine in your endeavors, and from your post, you seem pretty well rounded. Next time I'm through Whitehall, I'll be sure to stop at Bordens, just to check it out.
11-22-2008, 01:25 AM
Location: across the street
33 posts, read
97,435 times
Reputation: 23
Yep, I did not grow up on Sunnybrook farm. Spent 2 years of high school at orphanange farm and did my fare share of nut cutting(pigs and bulls. oh, i almost said cows, but i did not want to leave you guys an opening), smelly ass hog house cleaning, chicken house cleaning, fence post putting up, silage feeding, tractor plowing, etc. I know exactly what you are saying about those outside the area bringing their toubles with them. The area i finished high school was 30 miles north of Memphis, and there was zero to do. so i know what these kids are up to; small towns, bored, do some drinking, smokin, etc. and the young ones think we are all stupid. that is so funny.
12-14-2008, 03:23 PM
13 posts, read
50,604 times
Reputation: 11
Not a good idea
I personally wouldn't risk it...unless you can afford losing every dime. Whitehall, like many small SW Montana towns are struggling to make it along with the people in it. I personally believe that of all the places you could buy a bar and do well, Whitehall would be at the bottom. With Butte just a half hour in one direction and Bozeman an hour the other...Whitehall isn't exactly a good stopping place. Also, the majority of Whitehall is influenced by radical christianism that brews it's own beer (no kidding) or seniors that don't drink. There are many drunks....but they won't keep your business regular. Whitehall has a few nice houses and the surrounding areas are breathtaking...but you'd be foolish to invest there and expect a return.
01-01-2009, 04:34 AM
1 posts, read
2,306 times
Reputation: 10
Hey NewLtDad; Looking at the demographics I'd sum this business up like this: The population is half what is required to make a go of a decent eatery. The population is on the rise and the median income is fairly decent meaning that folk have disposable income and the means to travel to the "right" spot. The bar function with gambeling "might" provide sufficient revenue to make the thing work with a low overhead. With some "twenty" rooms and proper management conversion to a hunting lodge linked up with one or two competent outfitters might make a decent seasonal proposition. I see a ton of potential for the right buyer. The right buyer is the person with sufficient investment "resources" to purchase outright and eat a loss for five years looking forward to "long range" significant returns on investment.
01-01-2009, 05:00 AM
Location: NW Montana
6,259 posts, read
14,676,883 times
Reputation: 3460
Yep a good business plan involves lots of capital to eat the loss for a good long time. You are right on that.
01-01-2009, 12:15 PM
406 posts, read
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Reputation: 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lorelei2873
this is exactly true. the whole of west montana can be considered a tourist destination, and many businesses open and close with the seasons. i always stop at whitehall, although i never drink, we do stop at the small cafe's and the bookstore in town on our way to red rocks. i think whitehall has seen tremendous growth in the past few years. do a land search and see the amount of land and homes for sale in the area. the prices, which are moderately priced, and proximity to major population centers of montana has made this a plce for buyers. good luck.
03-11-2009, 10:57 PM
1 posts, read
2,299 times
Reputation: 10
Are you still looking at Bordens in Whitehall?
I am from Whitehall. Used to have a ranch on the east side of town. Still have property in the Cedar Hills area west of town. We always liked to go to Bordens for lunches and Sunday brunch. There are not very many family friendly restaurants in town. It might be a very viable possiblity...if the menu was right and the food was good. I know a number of visitors would take the Whitehall exit to drive the "back road" to Yellowstone. The road thru Whitehall, Cardwell, Norris, Ennis is a beautiful drive.
It is a very old building, yes...full of Montana character. There used to be a gigantic ornate bar in it. Don't know if it is still there or not.
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1996 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Democratic Party (Clinton)
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Industry diversity
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People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)
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Heh heh... That's what the smell is! 
Not a good idea
