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why the heck are so many people complaining about having to pay taxes for schools just because they do not have kids in school? gosh....do we want a bunch of uneducated idiots all over the place? i pay higher property taxes here in texas than people in new hampshire. i didn't complain about it when i didn't have any kids. i just don't get it. and no....i am not a liberal tax loving nut.
We already do have a bunch of uneducated idiots around with our current educational system which we pay a lot for. California has one of the highest if not THE highest education budget but one of the worst test scores in the country. I forgot our ranking but it is in the high fourties out of fifty.
I am worried that the politicians in NH are convincing you the people that they need more money for schools and education when in fact you can probably do better with less. When you the taxpayer say yes you should ask for an outline of what the new budget will pay for. Kids do not need more jungle gyms, recess, physical education or even cafeterias and sports programs. School is to learn only. If you want your school to be involved with sports you can do that outside and pay for it. I know that might sound extreme to some but there are way too many distractions in our school system that take away from the teachers ability to complete a solid curriculum.
School should be from 7am to 12pm M-F no recess and no interruptions. Then the child can get lunch at home like they used to in the old days. The problem with this is that nobody is home to take care of the child these days becuase the mother and father are at work. Public school today is more like day-care than anything else which is precisely why it is costing so much.
I had heard that some teachers need more money so they can buy candy to reward their kids if they get the right answer! WTH is that? I am telling you CA is really wierd. No wonder kids can't concentrate today, they are being pumped with retillin because parents think they lack the ability to focus. Well sure, if they are being pumped with candy how can they focus and learn. So many kids are being sent to these shrinks and just perscribing medication left and right. Bah, i guess we have to wait and see if NH people get so fed up they gather together and change the system. Good thing NH only has the one problem being the high property tax, otherwise they are an infinitely better state than CA in every other way.
I also have a question as to how the real estate market works in NH.
There is this home I am looking at in Bedford that has a listing price of 580k. The property tax is listed at $8700/annum. The total tax rate in Bedford is 18.99.
If I calculated correctly the assessed value should be the following:
8700 = 18.99x
x = 458.14
x1000 = y
y= $458,140 assessed value
Zillow also comes up with a value similar to mine at $477k based on sale comparables and square footage.
The real estate agent told me, "well the home has a lot of upgrades and the community of bedford is being improved". This I know is a load of hot air because home upgrades and the age of the home have no bearing on the value of the home... maybe the appeal as to whether or not it sells but not the value!
So I guess the question that I am getting at is: Does the appraised value usually come close to the assessed value?
jja, actually the upgrades most certainly will have an affect on the APPRAISED value of a home, and also on the ASSESSED value of the home if permits were pulled and town came in to sign off on the completed work. If upgrades didn't count, we could simply figure the tax bill based on square footage above and below ground (come to think of it, doing a CMA would be a heck of alot easier)
Of course a home with upgrades will have a higher sale price, simply because the work has already been done. People want "move-in condition" with today's features already in place, unless they are looking for a steal and a deal Think about it-- two houses, side by side, each with 3,000 square feet. One has builder-grade carpet & vinyl flooring, laminate counter top, and "stock" cabinets. The other has maple cabs, granite counters & exotic hardwood floors throughout. Which one will sell for a higher price? Which one will be APPRAISED higher?
Couple of years ago, homes were selling for higher than ASSESSED value, today the reverse is more often (but not always) true. In NH, the taxes are now based on 100% property value, and many towns are calculating value at 2005 levels, which happened to be the highest property values ever (gee, what a coincidence...)
Oh, BTW, it sounds like you spoke with the listing agent, who is contracted to obtain the highest and best sale price/conditions for their Seller. I would recommend hiring a Buyer's Agent who will cut through the crap and negotiate on your behalf...
Would the $435K house in Keene be comparable to the $435K house in your N. VA county?
I'd expect more for my money in Keene than Northern Virginia, but I checked online, using my zip code and Keene. For the same $435,000:
Keene: 4,966 sq.ft. (huge!), 6 bed, 3.5 baths, on .57 acres, built in 1880.
Here: 2600 sq.ft., 4 bed, 2.5 baths, on .25 acres, built this year.
So I could get a much bigger (and much older - but that's not bad) house in Keene than I can here for the same price ... and for both houses valued at the same dollar amount, I'd pay $7500 more every year in real estate taxes in Keene.
In our case, being empty nesters, we're looking to downsize from our 3-level, 2700 sq. ft. colonial (4 bed, 2 full & 2 half baths, eat-in kit., formal dining room, liv. rm, family rm, rec rm, garage .... way too much house for us). And in moving to New Hampshire, and buying a smaller house valued lower than the house we have now, we will pay more - perhaps significantly more - in real estate taxes.
I think it's important for anyone moving to New Hampshire to be aware of the real estate taxes ... I don't think those taxes are as well known outside of NH as is the lack of state income taxes or a sales tax.
And NH remains on our short list, and we'll be going into a serious property search with eyes open, fully aware of both the pros and cons of taxes in NH.
jja, actually the upgrades most certainly will have an affect on the APPRAISED value of a home, and also on the ASSESSED value of the home if permits were pulled and town came in to sign off on the completed work. If upgrades didn't count, we could simply figure the tax bill based on square footage above and below ground (come to think of it, doing a CMA would be a heck of alot easier)
That is what I am trying to find out... if upgrades affect the assessed and appraised value then both of those valuations should be the same, correct?
Secondly, I could be wrong but I thought permits were for exterior upgrades like roofing or a new pool. I don't think you need permits for interior rennovation unless you replaced plumbing, electricical, water, septic or something that intales ripping out and moving walls.
Of course a home with upgrades will have a higher sale price, simply because the work has already been done. People want "move-in condition" with today's features already in place, unless they are looking for a steal and a deal Think about it-- two houses, side by side, each with 3,000 square feet. One has builder-grade carpet & vinyl flooring, laminate counter top, and "stock" cabinets. The other has maple cabs, granite counters & exotic hardwood floors throughout. Which one will sell for a higher price? Which one will be APPRAISED higher?
You are correct, the one with the upgrades will sell first because of the appeal. You may also sell it for higher because it has those upgrades but the appraiser is not going to give increased valuation between the two homes if they have the same square footage and number of bathrooms unless one has landscaping or a pool/barbeque. In todays market if somebody spent 20k on a new roof they may see 10-15k back as opposed to a few years ago when upgrades matter. Upgrades matter a lot more in an upmarket than a down market.
Couple of years ago, homes were selling for higher than ASSESSED value, today the reverse is more often (but not always) true. In NH, the taxes are now based on 100% property value, and many towns are calculating value at 2005 levels, which happened to be the highest property values ever (gee, what a coincidence...)
I know but we are talking about now. As I mentioned before both the assessed value and the close to appraised value that zillow spits out are both 100k less than the listing price. In a down market the valuation should not be 580k.
Oh, BTW, it sounds like you spoke with the listing agent, who is contracted to obtain the highest and best sale price/conditions for their Seller. I would recommend hiring a Buyer's Agent who will cut through the crap and negotiate on your behalf...
Whether it is a buying agent or listing agent, they both really do not represent the buyer or the seller. What they do is go into a private room and talk to each other on which prices each is willing to pay and try and create a compromise that will get both parties to sign the contract so they can make their commission. Buyers agents will never come back to the buyer and say this house is overpriced, lets look for another one unless they know you are firm on your price and the seller is firm on theirs.
Anybody else have an experiences with buying a home in NH that they want to elaborate on? Are people offering assessed values or appraised values? I know the banks will just lend on the appraised value no matter what the seller wants for the house.
I am worried that the politicians in NH are convincing you the people that they need more money for schools and education when in fact you can probably do better with less.
You really are not getting the part about taxes being set by the town and not the state, are you? The 'politicians' (usually meaning Concord) aren't really saying a whole lot, it's each town dealing with it's OWN school - not the school next door, not the school up or down state, it's own. So when you move to that town, you have a say in what happens for your own school (go to Town Meeting. Vote). Which part of this are you not understanding?
[QUOTE}When you the taxpayer say yes you should ask for an outline of what the new budget will pay for.[/quote]
uh... like I said: go to Town Meeting. If the schools are asking for money, they will say what's it's for - and you will probably have an opportunity to have your say. do it there, that's where it might have an effect. Not here, it won't have an effect here.
Quote:
I had heard that some teachers need more money so they can buy candy to reward their kids if they get the right answer! WTH is that? I am telling you CA is really wierd.
And you know this because.....? And you know this is why NH teachers sometimes want pay raises (do you have any idea what teachers actually put up with, and how much work they do outside of school because they can't possibly get it done in 1 planning period? do you actually know any teachers? I do.) Yup, no arguments: CA is really weird. No argument that you're unhappy and want to leave. So leave. Not sure if NH is where you want to be though.
Quote:
they both really do not represent the buyer or the seller. What they do is go into a private room and talk to each other on which prices each is willing to pay and try and create a compromise that will get both parties to sign the contract so they can make their commission. Buyers agents will never come back to the buyer and say this house is overpriced, lets look for another one unless they know you are firm on your price and the seller is firm on theirs.
And you know this for a firm fact about NH real estate agents because....? Frankly, I think that was a rather rude thing to say to our resident real estate expert who was trying to answer your question (which I suspect was rhetorical anyway). Valerie is a wonderful person who is amazingly helpful to all who ask questions, especially about real estate - and never asking or requiring said person to use her as their agent. She gets nothing but our thanks and good thoughts. You are way too new here to be casting such aspersions on a treasured regular poster. And I can speak that my agent, when we bought our land, did work for our best interest and did make comments as best she was allowed, and carefully told us things we could or shouldn't or might do. maybe CA is like that, but NH is not.
Well, I'm thinking this person is just stirring the pot, but if they're sincere, I'll take a crack at this.
In the state of NH, a person's property tax bill is made up of:
1. the state education tax
2. the town education tax
3. the town municipal tax
4. the county tax.
Now... the politicians in Concord, have control over the state education tax. This is the tax levied on towns and sent to Concord because the state supreme court said that the state has an "obligation" to provide an adequate education for each student in the state. Love it/ hate it -- that's the way it is. So.... politicos in Concord collect these dollars and then send it back to the towns based on how many kids are in schools in that town. That's it -- no more input from the state legislature.
The town education tax is the money collected to pay for the schools and education of the students in the particular town. This dollar amount is voted each year by the PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY. Believe me, it's always a hot-button issue and in most towns, the school board needs to account for every penny.
The town municipal tax is the money collected to pay for municipal services. Police, fire, plowing the streets in the winter, etc. This dollar amount is voted on each year by the PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY. Once again, it's always a hotly contested issue as to whether the town needs another police officer or if they need to replace an ambulance, etc.
The final piece is the county tax. It's usually the smallest piece as counties don't do a whole lot in the state-- at least that I've seen.
All this is levied on your property tax. No income tax. No sales tax. The taxpayers in each town vote as to whether to raise or lower their taxes. Ta Da.... that's it.
As for how this affects the price of a home in NH?? Generally speaking... if you have two houses, pretty much the same, the one in a lower property tax town will cost more, and the one in a higher property tax town will cost less. There are rule breakers here, but that generally is the way it goes in like communities. It kinda equals itself out.
Hope this makes the situation up here a bit clearer.
Oh, and btw... unlike most other states I've lived in, we vote for EVERYTHING up here. Voting is kinda like a marathon sport some years. We've had years when we were voting on 10 warrant articles on the school ballot and upwards of 23 on the town. Want something for the town to vote on?? gather 50 signatures and it's on the ballot. This state is truely one of a kind.
I'd expect more for my money in Keene than Northern Virginia, but I checked online, using my zip code and Keene. For the same $435,000:
Keene: 4,966 sq.ft. (huge!), 6 bed, 3.5 baths, on .57 acres, built in 1880.
Here: 2600 sq.ft., 4 bed, 2.5 baths, on .25 acres, built this year.
So I could get a much bigger (and much older - but that's not bad) house in Keene than I can here for the same price ... and for both houses valued at the same dollar amount, I'd pay $7500 more every year in real estate taxes in Keene.
In our case, being empty nesters, we're looking to downsize from our 3-level, 2700 sq. ft. colonial (4 bed, 2 full & 2 half baths, eat-in kit., formal dining room, liv. rm, family rm, rec rm, garage .... way too much house for us). And in moving to New Hampshire, and buying a smaller house valued lower than the house we have now, we will pay more - perhaps significantly more - in real estate taxes.
I think it's important for anyone moving to New Hampshire to be aware of the real estate taxes ... I don't think those taxes are as well known outside of NH as is the lack of state income taxes or a sales tax.
And NH remains on our short list, and we'll be going into a serious property search with eyes open, fully aware of both the pros and cons of taxes in NH.
Since you mention having an empty nest; have you looked into if the towns you are considering offer tax reductions (generally in the form of deductions from the assessed value of the home) as you age?
Again, I have no idea what towns offer this outside of Hollis; but in Hollis at minus ~$150k at age 65 and minus around ~200k at age 80 and I believe this is "scaled" each year that's roughly a 35-50% property tax reduction on a $400k assessed home as you age- something worth researching. I was able to find the exact details on Hollis' website under "assessments"- I'm assuming many other towns have similar websites?
You really are not getting the part about taxes being set by the town and not the state, are you? The 'politicians' (usually meaning Concord) aren't really saying a whole lot, it's each town dealing with it's OWN school - not the school next door, not the school up or down state, it's own. So when you move to that town, you have a say in what happens for your own school (go to Town Meeting. Vote). Which part of this are you not understanding?
I am not understanding the part where the majority of the property taxes are going. Is it 50% that goes to schools for towns such as Amhearst and Bedford? Is there a website to go to to see how the mill rate is broken down for each town and how they arrive at that particular rate? I am not familiar with your system because I live in CA not NH. I have only been to your beautiful state once passing through to Canada. Never lived in a state with Town Hall Meetings.
uh... like I said: go to Town Meeting. If the schools are asking for money, they will say what's it's for - and you will probably have an opportunity to have your say. do it there, that's where it might have an effect. Not here, it won't have an effect here.
Can't go to a town meeting because I don't live in NH, not sure if I made that clear to you. I am not going to go to a town hall meeting until I get closer to when I am ready to buy a home. Then I will fly out there and see if they allow non-residents into them.
And you know this because.....? And you know this is why NH teachers sometimes want pay raises (do you have any idea what teachers actually put up with, and how much work they do outside of school because they can't possibly get it done in 1 planning period? do you actually know any teachers? I do.) Yup, no arguments: CA is really weird. No argument that you're unhappy and want to leave. So leave. Not sure if NH is where you want to be though.
I know this because my cousin is a CA school teacher and the candy method is what some of her fellow colleagues are using which neither she nor I agree with. AGAIN, I am not from NH. I am speaking about CA and was wondering if they do the same wacky stuff up there. Yes, I know A teacher... my cousin who knows many other teachers. Any other sources you want me to site? Is this forum like MLA format or something where I have to footnote my every source? I can do that but it would make my posts even longer.
And you know this for a firm fact about NH real estate agents because....? Frankly, I think that was a rather rude thing to say to our resident real estate expert who was trying to answer your question (which I suspect was rhetorical anyway). Valerie is a wonderful person who is amazingly helpful to all who ask questions, especially about real estate - and never asking or requiring said person to use her as their agent. She gets nothing but our thanks and good thoughts. You are way too new here to be casting such aspersions on a treasured regular poster. And I can speak that my agent, when we bought our land, did work for our best interest and did make comments as best she was allowed, and carefully told us things we could or shouldn't or might do. maybe CA is like that, but NH is not.
I never claimed this to be about NH real estate agents... perhaps I was over generalizing but the CA real esetate market and laws happen to be used by a number of other smaller states. I was really referring to the one I spoke to regarding the property in Bedford that I mentioned. But that is definately how they are in California which I was making my example about since I am from CA not NH. How do I know this? Because I am a licensed mortgage broker servicing the entire state of California. I have had much training about real estate markets and the entire procedure which is much more than what a real estate agent has to know. I see shady stuff all day long from equity fraud via appraisers, to real estate agents non disclosure to banks overcutting appraisals so they can secure their investment with more equity, to allowing refinances and equity stripping. Sorry if I may sound a little less naive but I think I know a thing or two about this business which is really cutthroat. I do approximately 1 million dollars worth of mortgage refinances and purchases per month... what does a real estate agent do? Typically the best real estate agents in CA sell no more than 5-7 homes per year and the crappy ones only 1 if they are lucky. And this is CA, NH I know does not have the volume.
Thank you so much LosingControl... a detailed answer I was looking for, I must have been writing my second to last post while you were answering mine so you have answered many of the questions I just posted. Thanks again.
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Think about it-- two houses, side by side, each with 3,000 square feet. One has builder-grade carpet & vinyl flooring, laminate counter top, and "stock" cabinets. The other has maple cabs, granite counters & exotic hardwood floors throughout. Which one will sell for a higher price? Which one will be APPRAISED higher? 
