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Don't mess with Orthodox Jews because things are done our way or else.
Im not sure that asking to give an orthodox jew leniency in terms of writing on shabbat is saying dont mess with Orthodox Jews.
Whether its a good idea or not is another matter, but don't exagerate what was being requested. Orthodox jews in NY are arrested all the time, from what I can gather.
As I said, I am all about sensitivity, however if you believe Sabbath supercedes the law and authority of the police department, we have a fundamental problem. You live in NYC, not Israel, and although there is freedom of religion and respect for all religions, Jews like all other religions, abide by all laws and authority, not those that conveniently coincide with their religion. I am very sorry that you cannot write on Sabbath, or that your religion prevents you from taking a picture for your DMV license, but if we allow religions to decide what works for them, and things should be done their way, how do we function as a society?
At the end of the day I think it was poor judgment by the Officer, but it sets a horrible precedent that things should be done their way or else..because ultimately, that's exactly what happened. You dared to follow the law and not do as the Orthodox Jew said, he flexed his muscle, and you were transferred. That is also poor judgment on the Captain or whomever transferred this officer, as a discussion with him and possibly additional sensitivity training is the answer, not a transfer. What was shown here quite clearly is that Orthodox Jews are able to do things their way or else, otherwise why would this cop be transferred and not simply sent back for additional training? He was not educated, he was PENALIZED.
What this told the Police Dept and NYC residents: You better listen to the Orthodox Jews and do not enforce laws that conflict with their religion, or else. And if you think this is the first time this has happened, you are gravely mistaken. They are notorious for this sort of nonsense and are rewarded for it unfortunately.
like I said, I am not commenting on whether it was right to transfer the officer, or whether the policeman should have offered to fill in the form for the jaywalker. I am not familiar enough with the case.
But to imply that orthodox Jews in NYC can disobey laws without consequence based on this, seems to me be needlessly inflammatory.
Fundamentally it should be inflammatory because it demonstrates how some people are more equal than others. Would a cop have been transferred had this happened in a poor Black and Hispanic neighborhood? The answer is NO. The Orthodox Jew was jaywalking and called on it, and the result was the COP was transferred. What conclusion would you have me draw? That the cop was wrong for issuing a citation? The cop was wrong for not doing what the Orthodox Jew said, and furthermore why should he exactly? What happens if there is a religion that says they cannot be arrested on Mondays..should cops be transferred for arresting someone on Monday when they "should have known better?"
The law itself does not conflict with Jaywalking, but I am unclear how one breaks a law and then officers must do what they are told or else? And I keep saying or else because there was an or else, the cop was penalized and transferred.
01-26-2011, 11:44 AM
grant516
n/a posts
I'm vehemently against officers being able to pick and choose who and when to ticket.
Cars double parked, and Jaywalking are two serious issues that come to mind.
It's NEVER okay to double park in this city, it's always an offense, but it's ticketed seldom, and when it is -believe me- people make a stink about it, and I don't blame them since officers look the other way 99% of the time.
Jaywalking, is the same instance. Up on major thoroughfares like 125th st, or down in the LES/EV, Jaywalking incredibly slows down car traffic and puts both pedestrians and motorists in harms way. To see 1000 jaywalkers a day, and ticket one- is going to be cause for uproar to the person it does happen to.
These are not situational, these are written laws.
If an officer sees a criminal act in progress, and does nothing to stop it, they themselves aren't upholding thier officers oath.
Someone in the legislative branch needs to reevaluate things like Double Parking during street cleaning, and Jaywalking so that it isn't a decision that has to be made by Executive and Judicial branches in our system.
I really don't care whether this Orthodox Jew got a ticket for Jaywalking or not..my issues are more serious:
1-The police officer somehow should have "known better" and done what he was told to do by the Orthodox Jew. And since he didn't do what he was told to do, he was punished.
2-The Orthodox Jew has a right to complain about the Jaywalking ticket, I would do the same because it is enforced so sporadically. However, transferring an officer because he did not do things the Orthodox Jew's way, or the way that was most convenient and acceptable to him, is pretty outrageous.
3-This would not have happened in a Black or Hispanic neighborhood. There are no "today is Sunday so I can not do XYZ, and if you make me do XYZ, you will be sorry." If you want to have a society where religion comes first, and laws/enforcement/authority comes second or when convenient to your religion, you can have that. But the US ain't it, never has been. Somehow though, it is for Orthodox Jews, and that's not okay.
The message being sent to NYPD and NYC residents is: Orthodox Jews and their religion supercede the NYPD's authority, and they follow the law in so much as it coincides with their religion, OR ELSE.
Cop would have been transferred or sent to do a desk job had the cop issued the ticket to the wrong political connected politician or other big shot in a poor black and Hispanic neighborhood.
Who gives one of Al Sharpton's friends a ticket? Who tickets the big shot parked by the mosque? How about one of Rangel's boys? How about the Bronx Borough President's clubhouse members? The iman? Any of their friends?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SobroGuy
Fundamentally it should be inflammatory because it demonstrates how some people are more equal than others. Would a cop have been transferred had this happened in a poor Black and Hispanic neighborhood? The answer is NO. The Orthodox Jew was jaywalking and called on it, and the result was the COP was transferred. What conclusion would you have me draw? That the cop was wrong for issuing a citation? The cop was wrong for not doing what the Orthodox Jew said, and furthermore why should he exactly? What happens if there is a religion that says they cannot be arrested on Mondays..should cops be transferred for arresting someone on Monday when they "should have known better?"
The law itself does not conflict with Jaywalking, but I am unclear how one breaks a law and then officers must do what they are told or else? And I keep saying or else because there was an or else, the cop was penalized and transferred.
I understand ticketing a "Big Shot" but we are not talking about one person, we are talking about an entire class of people! The Orthodox Jews are untouchable, and this is yet another example of what what happens when you don't do as they say. It's one thing to not ticket the big shot, it's another when an entire group of people are more equal than others.
"Would a cop have been transferred had this happened in a poor Black and Hispanic neighborhood?"
I dunno. there are black seventh day adventists Im pretty sure. Do they also not write on saturdays? If they ask a cop to fill in the form for them, does he do so, and treat them with respect. I do not know, but I certainly hope so. I hope a black seventh day adventist is treated the same in this respect as an Orthodox Jew. I have no info otherwise, do you?
As for sunday, christians in general DO write on sunday, so its not really the same.
You keep charecterizing it as not doing what the rabbi wanted - as if the rabbi gave an order. Did he? Did he nicely make a request?
sometimes policemen arent as nice as they should be in all kinds of ways. Certainly we have some a long way from when they were never held to account by communities.
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