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This looks like an old thread but the topic is still relevant.
The demolition of the els was a serious, serious mistake for NYC.
What once was the best rapid transit system in the world is a decaying mess today,
worse than when I left the Bronx in 1979.
What a valuable infrastructure just destroyed.
It could have been properly maintained and updated with quieter rolling stock.
As someone here says, the decline of the South Bronx really accelerated when the 3rd Ave el connection
to Manhattan was taken down in 1955.
Look at the cost of the new 2Ave subway, and it doesn't even get north of 96th St.
You can blame Mayor LaGuradia and his "progressive" friends who hated the els, wanted to get rid of the
privately owned and operated IRT and BMT lines, and refused to let them raise the nickel fare-and wanted to make money on
east side real estate. Of course, now your politicians there (de Blasio, Cuomo, AOC) are much worse, and how much is the fare now? They don't even understand what they have destroyed.
We can't even get an LGA shuttle and people are asking for a new elevated line to be built down crowded city streets and directly in front of high priced rentals & condos? LOL
The only way this happens is a mandate with money grown on trees and no public involvement. Then run down the protesting locals.
What I don't understand is why would you want to add more stops on the Lexington line, you need to remove stops there to improve service. Majority of those stations are walking distance apart.
Honestly the IRT's biggest handicap is that the stations are way to close together.
We can't even get an LGA shuttle and people are asking for a new elevated line to be built down crowded city streets and directly in front of high priced rentals & condos? LOL
The only way this happens is a mandate with money grown on trees and no public involvement. Then run down the protesting locals.
It was NO mistake to rip that horrible monstrosity out, good grief what were they THINKING when they put that garbage right there along an urban street???
It totally blocked the sun and made the shops, sidewalks and ground under it a dark, gloomy "cave", it was noisy as hell when steel trains running over steel tracks ran back and forth just feet away from everyone's apartment windows on the second floors, where the passengers could see through all the windows into the apartments unless the residents kep drapes, curtains or blinds shut across their windows permanently- creating a dark hovel for them in what became basically a windowless apartment as a result.
In 1915 they moved the elevated tracks from where they were to the center of the street, disrupting the stores, businesses and residents yet again during all that work.
Individual electric trolly cars like Broadway had would have been fine- removing those for diesel smog belching buses was the MISTAKE!
It was the PEOPLE living in the South Bronx who trashed and destroyed their own neighborhoods not the loss of the EL, they allowed their kids to trash everything, paint ugly grafitti all over everything, break windows, set fires and worse. The drugs, booze, crime and thugs destroyed it.
In Brooklyn there were 2 neighborhoods side by side divided by a particular street whose name I forget, I used to bike thru them to get to the Brooklyn Bridge to go to work every day, on one side of the street, neighborhood "A" was populated by Hassidic Jews, neighborhood "B" was populated by Hispanic, Puerto-Rican, black, Hatian, Spanish and others.
"A" Was kept CLEAN! shop keepers would be out sweeping the sidewalks, the sidewalks and streets were CLEAN, everyone was dressed nicely, even the children, they took pride in their neighborhood and even had volunteer block patrols. No abandoned buildings, no broken windows, no drunks sitting around on the stoops playing card games.
"B" just across the street!!! was like the South Bronx- a broken down war zone, broken beer and wine bottle glass and trash all over the sidewalks and street, burned out stripped abandoned cars sitting in the streets propped on milk crates missing their wheels, grafitti all over, abandoned store fronts, broken windows, abandoned buildings, working age men lolling around playing card games and drinking, you DEFINITELY did not feel safe there!
You definitely felt safe in "A" across the street!
The ONLY difference there was the PEOPLE who lived there, it was the same buildings, same area, same everything, only the makeup of the residents was different and on one side people had PRIDE in their neighborhood while the people in the other neighborhood deliberately TRASHED and DESTROYED their residences and the neighborhood!
This is what you typically would see in neighborhood "A" when I was there:
Yet they are spending how many billions building the Second Avenue Subway, when the East Side had two ELs? Tearing them down without replacement subways was a terrible mistake.
Yorkville started to really gentrify once it was clear phase one of the Second Avenue Subway would come in.
As the city torn down els, neighborhoods whose transportation service got worse then got poorer residents on welfare. This was urban disinvestment/white flight. And yes the removal of the Els did indeed contribute to the decline of the South Bronx.
Elevated trains can work if the platform is raised very high up. Street life isn't affected as much then but then the problem is getting up there at the stops
I think the paradigm about not wanting to live near an El has changed in the last 5 years. Look in Queensboro plaza and LIC, they are building luxury buildings all along the 7/N/W lines. Same along the J/M/Z in Brooklyn and lots of new construction out along the B/Q in outer Brooklyn. It seems like any real estate within a block or two of any MTA station above or below ground is becoming more valuable as people are priced farther afield from the most desirable areas. To me, the sound of an El rolling past a window is the sound of $$$ upon $$$ on any real estate investment.
Is there anything uglier than Broadway in Riverdale under the El.
Brooklyn under the D, or White Plains north of Allerton under the 2/5. If only they built the entire system underground when they conceived the lines. Bronx especially since it's mostly so much higher above sea level than the rest of the city (to my knowledge).
Start with something based on Siemens H-Bahn system, which is an underhanging monorail. it can be supported by single sided pylons. Then add a lift mechanism to the train cars, so they can lower themselves to street level to load and unload passengers. So you have an elevated train, without elevated stations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakeJones
Elevated trains can work if the platform is raised very high up. Street life isn't affected as much then but then the problem is getting up there at the stops
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