Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Even people who do travel internationally often do local travel as well. Particularly if you're going with a group, it maybe easier to drive to say the beach for the day. Or the casino or whatever you do.
How often does the average New Yorker travel locally outside the city (metro area)? I would say rarely. NYC is very neighborhood centric. Is car share such a burden that it can't be handled a few times a year? A Zip Car trip to Jones Beach or Jersey Shore, completely doable. IMO, I would rather take the train to Philly or Boston and stay in a hotel located centrally near mass transit. Anything farther I would fly.
Quote:
People that I know who have only done public transportation, from Central Queens think the Bronx is some far away place. But by car from Central Queens to the North Bronx is 25 MINUTES. By train its an hour and one half.
How often do you travel between Central Queens and the North Bronx? Definitely not a common trip. For those that have to on a regular basis, I can understand a car. But most people don't make that trip often enough. Even if you visit someone/or a place a couple times of year mass transit is not bad or you could even just take a cab (Still cheaper then owning a car).
Quote:
Particularly if you're pressed for time and you need to do this on a more regular basis (work or school) it gets to the point where a car is just the best option. It saves you TIME, and TIME is money.
But cars are not the fastest or most cost effective mode of travel in many cases. Especially when traveling to those areas that are the most frequent destinations (Typically in Manhattan). Most trips are pretty short too (Under 3 miles).
Quote:
As for grocery shopping, not everyone shops locally all the time. Though I do use my local grocery stores for somethings, I also got shopping at Trader Joes and Whole Foods a lot. Granted, I use the subway system for that, but still.
Of course, but how often do you find yourself in a supermarket? Why not get it delivered or take a cab if you must. Still cheaper then owning a car.
Quote:
I think when people say New Yorkers this or New Yorkers that, they speaking on how they personally live and how their friends live. In which case you should say this is what me and my friends do.
Well I previously stated most New Yorkers live in or near the core, that most New Yorkers do not own a car and that even less commute via auto and I stand by those statements.
Last edited by nykiddo718718; 05-28-2013 at 06:03 AM..
I think when people say New Yorkers this or New Yorkers that, they speaking on how they personally live and how their friends live. In which case you should say this is what me and my friends do.
This, and the "well it works for me, no reason why it won't work for you" attitude.
How often does the average New Yorker travel locally outside the city (metro area)? I would say rarely. NYC is very neighborhood centric. Is car share such a burden that it can't be handled a few times a year? A Zip Car trip to Jones Beach or Jersey Shore, completely doable. IMO, I would rather take the train to Philly or Boston and stay in a hotel located centrally near mass transit. Anything farther I would fly.
A zip car has to be reserved for a fixed period of time. If you don't bring it back by the said time and someone has rented it, you are going to pay a large fine. That time pressure messes with your enjoyment of your day at the beach and this is a concrete example of less freedom than having your own car. So then you're needing to rent the zip for the entire day and you're looking a much higher cost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nykiddo718718
How often do you travel between Central Queens and the North Bronx? Definitely not a common trip.
wow, talk about ignorance. There are tens of thousands of people who commute from LI / Queens to the Bronx / Westchester / Fairfield County and vice versa every day
Quote:
Originally Posted by nykiddo718718
But cars are not the fastest or most cost effective mode of travel in many cases. Especially when traveling to those areas that are the most frequent destinations (Typically in Manhattan). Most trips are pretty short too (Under 3 miles).
I rarely drive into Manhattan during 9-5 weekdays, maybe once or twice a year. Subway is the way to go, and once or twice a week I bike into downtown. But on weekends & weeknights, driving is usually the most convenient transportation medium. As I've said before, cost is not an issue. It's almost insignificant compared to the cost of rent, and is absolutely necessary when you have kids to maintain a good quality of life.
I emphatically agree with this. Who ARE these people? Lol. Oh yes when me and the children aren't taking public transportation to the opera in Manhattan we are jetsetting the globe! Lol.
Do these people have any idea of how much a family vacation costs? So what save up for an entire year to drop 5-7k taking the entire family on a vacation that last what? One week? After that then what? Wth are you supposed to do with the kids for the rest of the summer?
Even if you take them somewhere by public transportation sometimes the journey wears out the kids before they even get there. We took the kids to the Brooklyn Aquarium (admission fees covered by family membership to Bronx Zoo). If we had taken the subway it would have taken nearly 2 hours by train and involved multiple transfers and a walk from the station. Not feasible with our family size...especially since we have a toddler.
Yesterday we took the kids to a park on the water in Tarrytown and then ended up driving to City Island for dinner in the evening. In between we also stopped at Coldstone for Ice Cream and went to Joanne's for craft supplies since it was right next door. How would you manage to do that on a bus or train? Give me a break.
We also go camping. I booked a cabin in the Central NY region for an entire week for $374. With gas, food, and camping equipment we have a very affordable family vacation coming up. With no car we would not be able to do this.
If you want to spend every waking minute in the 5 boroughs with your kids then fine go carless. You will be very limited in where you go and what you children get to see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by city living
Travel: That's nice that you think of Italy and Mexico as travel but that is not a reality for everyone. There is no way my parents would have ever had the money to take us out of the US---we never even left the east coast growing up! My husband and I go hiking and camping a lot because it's very cheap. Or we can drive upstate and stay somewhere for free. We won't be able to take a real vacation this year as far as I can tell so these little trips help me keep my sanity. I love getting away from here and going upstate when I can.
absolutely necessary when you have kids to maintain a good quality of life.
this may be true for you. I doubt this is true for all, even those who do not live in Manhattan or a mini-Manhattan.
I have to say nykiddo pushes this stuff even harder than I do; I am not sure if that is the right thing to do. whether it is right or wrong I will not go as far as nykiddo does.
something has to give with these problems cars cause. nobody except bmwguydc has posted any helpful response regarding the double parking and loading zone issues that delay bus service that I described in post #28 and elsewhere.
I pressed this with wawa and all wawa could tell me was to go petition MTA to improve service (nywriterdude then said Albany needs to be petitioned) when petitioning MTA really has absolutely nothing to do with the problems lines like the B41, B44, and B46 deal with..petitioning the government is easier said than done, and as I said before, I cannot do it alone. I alone have neither the money nor the political power.
heh, I need to petition the government even if I want them to erect plastic bollards on parts of unidirectional Nostrand, Rogers, and Bedford Aves in areas where double parking is an issue in order to force people not to double park since double parking would mean backing up traffic that pretty much has no way of getting around the offending vehicle without reversing, due to the presence of the bollards.
too bad that might mean delivery vehicles having difficulties parking somewhere such that they do not block physically separated lanes, which would mean car-hypnotized merchants and whichever customers drive to their stores actually having to see the writing on the wall and having to eliminate street parking (probably metered parking, not unmetered parking) in favor of more loading zones with longer hours!
I understand that fixing MTA issues is tied to issues with bus lines that are generally less frequent. or like city living mentioned, bus lines that were eliminated. but as I said before there are a lot of problems here and a person has to start somewhere.
I cannot fix everything; I am not superman, and traffic congestion and other problems caused by scofflaw motorists and the merchants' unwillingness to give up customer parking spaces for loading zones have plagued frequent lines like the B41, B44, and B46 and will continue to do so.** this is a real problem that needs to be fixed so that people might have more respect for mass transit, have an easier time with it, and see less of a need to use cars.
as I have said so many times before, it is much easier to keep the car-independent car-independent (unless doing so legitimately prevents them from advancing themselves, as in the case of those who want to go into real estate or filmmaking or whatever) than it is to break the car-dependent out of car-dependence.
I do not govern what people do and this should not be construed as an attempt to do so. note that never once in this thread did I say "so and so should do this, not that" or "so and so must do that, not this," so I am not sure what the motivation was behind comments about dictators or insinuating that people's rights are being encroached upon..what is currently happening AFAIC is that many bus riders' rights to faster service are being encroached upon due to scofflaw motorists and the merchants' unwillingness to give up customer parking spaces for loading zones. NIMBYism.
something has to give, it is easier to say things like petition the government or petition MTA than to actually do them, and here if you want something done you must do it yourself.
I have a big problem with the fact that the government and citizenry (well, this is a democracy, where the citizenry is the government!) have done absolutely nothing about all the problems cars cause for buses (especially the frequent ones, which are much easier to use than the infrequent ones) in this city. I cannot be a hypocrite by saying this and having my strong opinions and then turning around and contributing to the problem by owning a car, which would mean using a street parking space and then I would be crazy not to oppose attempts by the government to eliminate such parking spaces even if it were done to improve bus service that suffers from scofflaw motorists and the merchants' unwillingness to give up customer parking spaces for loading zones.
**yes I know it was also years of apathy on the part of city planners and the government combined with astronomical present-day rents as well. I did not forget that.
Last edited by detroitdiesel; 05-28-2013 at 08:29 AM..
Reason: government/citizenry comments at the end
Come back when you have kids so you can speak to a subject you actually know something about.
alright, but until then I have not been proven wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakeJones
It's called electric cars. Cheap, long range electrics can't come soon enough
if you are addressing pollution problems (which were not even my main concern), you should know that it generates mad pollution just to build electric vehicles to begin with: http://www.vancouverobserver.com/blo...cars-take-look
Last edited by detroitdiesel; 05-28-2013 at 08:36 AM..
Reason: response to blake's edit
I cannot be a hypocrite by saying this and having my strong opinions and then turning around and contributing to the problem by owning a car, which would mean using a street parking space and then I would be crazy not to oppose attempts by the government to eliminate such parking spaces even if it were done to improve bus service that suffers from scofflaw motorists and the merchants' unwillingness to give up customer parking spaces for loading zones.
up to a point, this does not mean that somebody else who has certain opinions and then turns around and contributes to these problems should be considered a hypocrite.
alright, but until then I have not been proven wrong.
Yes you have been, you just can't see it yet because you can't possibly understand the situation until you've been in it. I was 32 when I had my first kid; believe me, I know what it's like to be a grown adult who thinks that they can comprehend complex issues then be faced with the reality that children change everything.
Hipsters who tout the bike as the be-all and end-all of most the world's problems, and public transportation as the big mop to clean up whatever remains, for the most part know nothing about what real, regular American working families face in every day life, even here in the super-utopia that is NYC to those who flock here. This isn't a complaint, because parenthood as a conscious choice is not something to complain about - until of course one is faced with a tide of newfangled NY'ers with glasses so rosy they can't even see the different colors of the ESB (even with the new LED lighting) who want to force their view of the world on your reality.
Honestly, every day I want out of this cesspool of social engineering experiments more and more. I feel like a Neanderthal in a science lab in my own hometown. The crap transplants come up with is getting worse and worse by the minute.
alright then please explain how I have been proven wrong if I have not even experienced the situation or come across the associated difficulties.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
