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Yes there are development occuring throughout the borough, especially in the South Bronx. In the Yankee stadium redevelopment zone, not only are they adding a huge retail and commercial investment, they are also opening the waterfront...and that is just one piece of the pie at the moment. Things are happening..it takes time...
Ogden..thats an interesting perspective....I udnerstand what you are saying...individuals need to take actions and responsibility instead of waiting for mass consensus or support. You end up with meetings to schedule when the next meetings will be and nothing is ever done.
But I think the essence of SongBird's statement is that people DO need to work together...and they are doing just that. These are the groups that are reshaping the Bronx, and the South Bronx in particular, into the affordable housing resource for the working/middle class..the backbone of the city: teachers, police, city workers, etc.
Guy, as someone who is actively involved in thae affairs of Highbridge I hear you but i think it's necessary that these groups be organic and bottom/up, not pretentious and top/down.
Part of the problem with many failed efforts in the recent past has been that with private/public partnerships being so trendy the city fathers have basically given no bid contracts and blank checks to the protestant church whereby the minister *** shepherds got fat while the congregation/community *** flock starved.
Then I think we are all in agreement, it should be from the bottom up...which is how all of the grassroots groups that are actively reshaping the South Bronx got started...and there are more forming every day.
Then I think we are all in agreement, it should be from the bottom up...which is how all of the grassroots groups that are actively reshaping the South Bronx got started...and there are more forming every day.
Well the Andrew's and Davidson farms are long gone but I guess time will tell the Bronx story... lol
''Yo, I'm fairly conservative and all but you've got to chill. Saying that people need to be thrown out on the streets and starve is not helping anything. Thats just hurtful rhetoric.''
Well, you're obviously taking the couple words I've used and blowing it out of context. There was a lot to that message. I didn't mean that people would starve literally. Of course, no one would deny people food stamps. I don't believe most would result to going homeless anyway. They'd be forced to working to pay for lower-income.
Is living in a place with more urine than a kitty box really better than being homeless? Any man that doesn't work that brings a child into this world doesn't deserve to consider himself a man. What else can you say? Capitalism, socialism or anything, that would be defined as a ill-hearted irresponsible loser who takes advantage of society.
When I say things, don't take them so literally. I'm basically saying that people need to be forced to shape up, because they aren't taking the initiative to do it themselves. I know in realistic terms, nothing this immediate could occur for political reasoning. However, whether all of you think segments of what I said was either unkind or inhumane (if you don't interpret what I'm saying even close to the right way), you can't deny that it would clean up the trash in the Bronx. It would benefit the 80 percent of society that is at minimum working-class. It would boost the pride of this place.
''Yes I think NYC was just letting off steam...as his "plan" is just nonsensical ramblings. The projects are not going anywhere for the forseeable future, but the WAY the projects are run, and their role in this city, can change greatly.''
Just remember one thing, I'm not looking for any of you to have my brain lol If you think I'm ''letting off steam'', it's obviously more so from the tone I used than the actual content. For myself, throwing a little charisma is the easiest way of letting out all of my plan in detail. As I could tell with yellowtail, he took good out of my message. He agreed with most of it. The basic idea is that the housing project's are doing no good for the Bronx. They aren't doing good for any place, but for a place is as geographically lucrative as the Bronx, it's unacceptable. I don't think aiming at where Queens is a bad idea nor unrealistic.
The only way the project's could be gone is if enough people lobbied to get rid of them. There would have to be plausible reasoning to go along with this. Remember, just because we get rid of the project's doesn't mean good commercial projects couldn't replace these ideas. One apartment building being knocked down doesn't have to always equate to another. A lot of people wouldn't be able to afford to live in these possible mediocre apartments.
Although it's nice to try to appeal to other borough's to move here, it's still somewhat disrespectful to possibly knock the hard-working people here too. They'd create jobs and outside interest which could accumulate more revenue in these communities. It should only continue to approve new building codes to the contractors, as long as I knew that it was to have support. Personally, I doubt a construction worker who averagely works 50 hours a week mind seeing a loser who doesn't work in the projects get kicked out on his ass. Basically, if people pushed for this idea, maybe some gradual movement to ridding New York City's project would go quicker than it appears to be.
''That is correct Circa..however we must also work within the confines of the current state of affairs of the South Bronx: a heavily segregated, extremely poor, entirely subsidized district. Building luxury housing is great..but who will pay the premium to live amongst the extreme poverty and filth when there is an ENTIRE world that you can live in outside of the South Bronx that is fighting to get your money. You are missing the middle step BEFORE you jump to luxury housing....and thats returning the middle class back to the area FIRST with affordable housing (not low income housing) and the amenities to support the new population. The middle will return in droves as quality, affordable housing is built, along with the amenities and infrastructure to support their lifestyle...and that is exactly what you are seeing today.
Once that is completed, the next step is further diversifying the area by transforming some affordable housing into market rate, as well as low-income to affordable housing, and so on. It takes steps, which is why areas in the South Bronx are a LONGTERM investment.
I agree with the potential that exists in the Bronx..and South Bronx in particular, but it takes one step at a time, and that is exactly what is occuring in the area. The middle class first....all others after.''
This was a good message. Basically, it really relates to the comparison of the economic goal of reaching where Queens is at. You're completely right that baby steps need to be taken. Basically, people need to climb the ladder. The poor needs to work to get to lower-middle class (aka working) and more of the working-class needs to get to middle-class stature (more college education) to improve the whole dynamic of the south Bronx. Once everyone has a little money in their pocket that they knew wasn't allocated by the government, their confidence and creativity will increase.
His plan wouldn't so bad either though. What he is basically saying that if really nice houses are built here, than it could be relatively icon to a changing atmosphere in the Bronx. It'd attract more attention and throw a little pride in the community if they know that either people from the outside are moving or, or people within their community are growing. Basically, even if they don't like them because they think their ''snobby'', they'd acquire some level of confidence in believing that their area isn't as bad as if outsiders want in and insiders don't want out.
The idea of gradualist versus immediatist come into play in this. Basically, if we want to immediately dispose of trash, it means a lot of the people who are here will go and a lot of new-comers are to arrive. For people outside the Bronx, that's good, but for poor people inside the Bronx, that suck. We've seen things gradually turn for the better in other parts of this city, but that is because they have more capital to work with. We've had this same expectation in horrible neighborhoods in Brooklyn that have changed only a tiny bit.
I think you have go integrate some gradual points of view into this argument, but not as a whole. If people weren't taking jobs when the market was great in the late 90's, I doubt they'd start doing it when our economy is sluggish. If you want real results, getting rid of the project's is the only answer. One person said to knock down half of them and replace them with co-op's. That's not a bad idea. If something point in this direction isn't done though, the only way absolve yourself of the existing poverty and crime (that's either in or next to your neighborhood) is by just exiting the Bronx altogether. That shouldn't have to be a necessary alternative. We'll all see what happens though. In 25 years in 2033, what do you think the south Bronx will economically appear to be?
PS. back in the 30's there was a program called the WPA, of course it was right after the depression, but it was a work program that basically
they built roads, bridges, worked in state parks........my late husbands father worked for he WPA to put food on the table for his 10 kids. So
any kind of work program might work......of course this isn't the 30's and people are particular about what kind of work they may or may not want
to do.
If there are no handouts and people are hungry and without decent housing, they will do what they can to get by like they did in the Depression Era. People can be particular when they are receiving handouts and not doing anything to contribute.
''If there are no handouts and people are hungry and without decent housing, they will do what they can to get by like they did in the Depression Era. People can be particular when they are receiving handouts and not doing anything to contribute.''
Well, for them, isn't it already like the Depression era? Isn't life at rock bottom? People at least had fight and unity back than. Even those housing project's losers descendant's ancestors in the projects knew that was no way in life during the depression. They actually live worse than now than they did back than. At least it was a common struggle for man. In fact, some of them got out and came right back. There were different forms of public housing back than too, but it wasn't as easy to get and people really felt like they had no right to live if they were there.
As one pointed out, if there are generations of families who live in the same project's, they should really question what their motive is for being on earth. A man that makes a baby that doesn't work is best off committing suicide. Sure, it sounds controversial and politically incorrect, but at least all innocent people (like the children they produce who were unplanned almost every time) would live unfiltered. One could make the argument those families should not exist on this earth, being they didn't have the capital to support them. The only way those people could live better lives is if they never knew who there family were. At least in the depression people were proud to be who they were. Do these people even believe their children are gifts?People may not like believe the saying you are only as good as your parents, but they'd be more foolish if they thought most people in America (nonetheless housing projects) weren't followers.
If this city cared about these children, they'd know not to let them live like that. Even if they were ''loved'' by some loser mother who never worked a day in her life (sadly the same could be said to many of their father's), is that going to pay their salary when they're 30? Personally, from an economical and assimilative standpoint, they'd be better off getting locked in a closed all day by a foster family than at least got them through college. At least they'd know the way they were treated was the wrong way, because no one lives that way. They'd have more fight to achieve success than someone who never thought of their parents as inhumane, even though not working in capitalism allegorically could be that (especially if you the ability and have children).
When all you see around is men who don't work, no one could blame you to not believe in God or not believe the world is a beautiful place. Your right. It's the biggest catch 22 and has so much politics involved. The housing these people receive isn't even housing though. If you ate off food stamps your whole entire life, you'd never know what a good meal is. It's a couple walls, the hallway stench of urine and a place of fear. It's practically like participating in an optional Holocaust, except few die for reasons they couldn't have controlled. You'd be better off being a nomad in the woods in Wyoming picking berries off trees and building yourself a tree house. Or a Brazilian jungle. Anything but there.
People during the depression and even the civil rights movement had more self-pride and confidence. For one, they believed it was a requirement to get better. They took more effort to gain social reform. They loved their flag more. And they were a lot more religious. Their voice was recognized.
We all learned that any healthy middle-aged man who lives in the projects is not a man. That doesn't mean that's how their children shouldn't be though. Basically, if they're forced out of the projects, where else is there to go? Get a minimum wage job flipping burgers in Wendy's might not sound great, but at least you'd have the right to call yourself a man. At least that child could come home from school and say his father is his father, and not a sperm donor. These men won't fix themselves unless someone is poking them in the back with a pointy stick.
There are only two weapons to use against them. Homelessness and their children. No one wants to live homeless, so even if it means working part-time, they'll do it. Some are actually are willing to though, so next is their children (which so many of those men have made the mistake of ''mistakenly'' having). Usually, that's more personal, even if he doesn't love his children. Because it's a slap in the face and his wife (if she didn't already) might leave him. Usually, social worker's won't allow kid's to live on the street. If they couldn't have it their way either, they'd probably work so they wouldn't get stuck in some run down redneck motel or trailer contracted out by the government.
By destroying the projects, you'd be doing three big things. One, promoting education, assimilation and self-reliance. Two, advancing capitalism and destroying socialism. Three, promoting human-growth, as well as self-pride, more contained fertility rates and the belief in the right to life.
This message isn't all to you, but to other's too. It may not directly effect the lives of most people who live in the Bronx, but let's get real. When non-Bronx residents think about the Bronx what do they think about? Poverty and the Yankees. I know I ''blew off steam'' in this which other's probably didn't like, but all of what I'm saying is true. The politics of this is what this is holding this back. This is why I went so into detail the separation of immigration assimilation and a decent percentage of inner-city African-Americans (no not blacks or those of African descent - African-Americans and usually non-religious and non-southern).
Although much of the blame is to their community, we all know they've gotten the raw end of every deal. We all know how immigrant's work hard and Americans are lazy cry babies. Blacks weren't getting the working-class job's like the Fire Department, because uneducated lower-middle class whites protected their interests. Although much less with the FDNY and more so with other blue-collared lines of work, they chose to take much more interest in grooming immigrant's because they had better work ethics, didn't complain and kept their mouths shut.
When lower-middle class whites started becoming middle and upper-middle class, new immigrants were willing to take the construction, factory and many of the lower-paying blue-collared jobs. New York City has always been a highly immigrated and multi-cultural city. New York City is somewhat black too, but not overwhelmingly. Actually, New York City is technically is about the same percentage of African-Americans as America (11.6% in NYC, 1/8 in the U.S. - without subtracting West Indians, post-WWII West Africans, ect). If you were to look at thing's from a white racist's point of view (many of the employer's of blue-collared lines of work in the pre-60's era) in this city, there actually are ways to avoid blacks. There's no way to avoid immigrants. There are plenty of middle class (and even lower-middle class) places that have few African-Americans. There is no lower-middle class/middle-class place in this city that doesn't have a decent percentage of immigrants.
Basically, blacks were screwed. LBJ might have been well-intentioned, but he didn't know how things would end up. It's probably best off he died soon after his presidency, so he didn't have to see the misery that exists for what he created. Mayor John Lindsay (who was arguably the main contributor to bringing public housing to this city) wasn't nearly as lucky though, because he lived until 2000.
Unlike a lot of other democrat's, I actually vote almost entirely along my parties lines, so I know how frustrating this can be. Both of these major parties suck, which we always just lean to the one who sucks less (which happens to be my party now). And the liberal politicians media in this city want to keep unassimilated African-Americans now, because they know they can use them like a teacher can make their students puppets. They get their votes because they feed them there grr brr. Republicans neglect them, but the argument could be made that is exactly what they need to get on their feet.
To those who live in the projects (probably very few if not none on here anyway), here is what I say. I can give you the crumbs on my plate for dinner, or I can give you the chance to eat dinner with me. If you knew that for your whole life you were to eat crumbs off my plate, would you even want to eat (or live) to begin with? If your family has lived there for over a decade and your father is not significantly disabled, you should be disgraced of your last name and should fight to change that legacy. People did it for their civil right's in the 60's and now it's your freaking turn.
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