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Not only were these people wrong but now NYC is in one of the tightest real estate markets in her history.
Maybe this is the final straw for me when I hear economist, republicans or miserable people who live or left NY who say NY is dead “forever”.
City is literally bulletproof and can withstand anything and honestly I don’t think a situation like the 1970s will ever happen again or even get to close to those levels.
Although I agree with your thesis, your argument is intellectually dishonest.
It's like claiming that a loser kid from a wealthy family that is constantly being bailed out by their parents wealth isn't really a loser.
The moniker of any well run system is the ability to withstand shocks. COVID broke NYC and the FEDS bailed us out. Without the COVID relief this city was on track to bankruptcy fairly quickly. This city is as poorly run as ever and the ROI on tax dollars is abysmal.
Moreover, I'm not sure why you're focusing on NYCs RE market as a barometer. NYCs RE market is very unique. It's like a diamond mine in the DR Congo. NYC's RE market is global in a sense and doesn't always reflect local fundamentals.
Talk to some of the restaurant owners who used to close at 4AM because of the excess customers from nearby establishments, many of them now closed, that now have to close at 11PM.... I know a few of them.... NYC may not be dead, but it is not what it was pre-covid.... far from it.
Exactly.
Nobody thought 9 Million people were all gonna clear out but it's a lot different than 3 years ago and going down the wrong path.
You sound like one of those people who say the economy is strong because the stock market is up. There are many factors at play here, not the least of which is the death/flight of the middle class, soaring crime, outrageous homeless problems, etc. To be fair, other cities are facing the same issues, but they all share the same sort of brainless progressive leadership. Real estate prices in Los Angeles and San Francisco are high as well, but I wouldn't want to live there either.
Get out of the cities while you still can.
No I sound like a realist and you sound unrealistic. Fact is the city didn’t die but went the complete opposite. I forgot nay sayers literally get paid nothing to somehow convince people of situations that do not exist no matter how wrong they are.
Get out of cities while you still can?
Cities across the globe are seeing the fastest growth of people lol
Although I agree with your thesis, your argument is intellectually dishonest.
It's like claiming that a loser kid from a wealthy family that is constantly being bailed out by their parents wealth isn't really a loser.
The moniker of any well run system is the ability to withstand shocks. COVID broke NYC and the FEDS bailed us out. Without the COVID relief this city was on track to bankruptcy fairly quickly. This city is as poorly run as ever and the ROI on tax dollars is abysmal.
Moreover, I'm not sure why you're focusing on NYCs RE market as a barometer. NYCs RE market is very unique. It's like a diamond mine in the DR Congo. NYC's RE market is global in a sense and doesn't always reflect local fundamentals.
Actually it’s not dishonest. We literately have a thread on here showing the average rent for Manhattan soared to over $5,000 a month. A dead city similar to Detroit doesn’t have those type of situations.
. A dead city similar to Detroit doesn’t have those type of situations.
For the record, I don't think NYC is dead.
For that matter, Detroit is no longer dead either (it's definitely not thriving, but I was out there this past May and its downtown area is doing much much better than it was 15-20 years ago. Lots of new developments, restaurants, and apartments).
I'd consider a place like Cairo, IL to be dead.
NYC is certainly not dead, but a lot of its vulnerabilities were shown with a minor crisis like the 2020 covid pandemic. IF something more serious were to occur, or several covid-like events in succession, it would be interesting to see if the city would be able to keep shutting down and opening back up.
They used to call John Gotti the "Teflon Don" because nobody thought that he could be touched. Until he was.
No one, or no group of people (a city) is untouchable!
No I sound like a realist and you sound unrealistic. Fact is the city didn’t die but went the complete opposite. I forgot nay sayers literally get paid nothing to somehow convince people of situations that do not exist no matter how wrong they are.
Get out of cities while you still can?
Cities across the globe are seeing the fastest growth of people lol
Your entire argument is that rent prices are high ergo the city isn't dead. No one said it was "dead", but it's certainly dying, and high rents are not a good indicator either way. What we are seeing is our large cities becoming like Brazil - a tiny group of wealthy elites ruling over a majority peasant population, while the middle class - IE people that don't earn enough to pay the rents and don't get anything for free from the government - flee.
As someone else mentioned as well, the demographics of the city are entirely different now than they were 20 or 30 years ago. The only cities worldwide that can thrive with this level of diversity are places like Singapore which is a de facto police state.
Actually it’s not dishonest. We literately have a thread on here showing the average rent for Manhattan soared to over $5,000 a month. A dead city similar to Detroit doesn’t have those type of situations.
The average new car price is $50K. That doesn't mean it's sustainable. It's indicative of more severe underlying issues. The market does work through those issues but it usually takes time.
The average new car price is $50K. That doesn't mean it's sustainable. It's indicative of more severe underlying issues. The market does work through those issues but it usually takes time.
A wikipedia summary of "The Emperor's New Clothes":
Quote:
Two swindlers arrive at the capital city of an emperor who spends lavishly on clothing at the expense of state matters. Posing as weavers, they offer to supply him with magnificent clothes that are invisible to those who are stupid or incompetent. The emperor hires them, and they set up looms and go to work. A succession of officials, and then the emperor himself, visit them to check their progress. Each sees that the looms are empty but pretends otherwise to avoid being thought a fool.
Finally, the weavers report that the emperor's suit is finished. They mime dressing him and he sets off in a procession before the whole city. The townsfolk uncomfortably go along with the pretense, not wanting to appear inept or stupid, until a child blurts out that the emperor is wearing nothing at all. The people then realize that everyone has been fooled. Although startled, the emperor continues the procession, walking more proudly than ever.
A story as old as time. People think that willingness to spend money on something means that it is actually valuable.
Too many people, including several posters here, are underestimating the crucial indispensable asset New York City has: The ability to constantly reinvent itself. It has always managed to eventually rebound when people declared it down and out, or even dead. That's a quality not easily found elsewhere in the U.S. cities.
We were counted out after mass waves of immigration at various points (including now) only to see most of those immigrants or their children become working, tax-paying contributors. We were counted out when so many factories across all the boroughs closed in 1950s and 1960s closed and families moved to suburbia. Not a generation later we become a world hub of finance and the arts, and young middle-class people hungered to move here. We were counted out during the crime wave of the '78s and '80s, when some folks even thought all the Broadway theaters should leave Times Square. They didn't and Broadway (covid notwithstanding) is still big. We wee counted out after 9/11, when "nobody" wanted to work in high-rises anymore--and look at the skyline now.
I am no Pollyanna pretending things here are all hunky-dory. God knows we have problems. I'm just injecting a little long-term perspective here. Unlike a Newark or Buffalo or Detroit, we come back, and we come back strong. Sure, the immigrants now are Dominican or Chinese instead of Italian or Irish. They come here and will do the same as everybody always did--work, make some money, and move to the 'burbs. Sure, covid has made everybody crazy. But it too will subside and things will get back to normal--except it will be a new normal. I don't know what that next "normal" will be, and neither does anyone else, really. It won't be what a lot of us here grew up with, and wishing that wasn't so isn't going to do a damn thing to stop it. Only thing we know is that it will be different, and if a history is a guide, it won't be so bad at all.
Too many people, including several posters here, are underestimating the crucial indispensable asset New York City has: The ability to constantly reinvent itself. It has always managed to eventually rebound when people declared it down and out, or even dead.
Very true, though this is the 1st time that it's attempted to do so in the 21st century. 9/11 was too close to the 20th century (pre smart-phones, zoom, social media).
This time will be a true test in the city's ability to re-invent itself.
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