What's the deal with Staten Island? (New York, Nassau: foreclosure, crime, mortgage)

[nyc0127]

Through all my posts, I haven't actually discussed where I'd suggest someone to move. Disregarding Staten Island and assuming you can't afford to live in Manhattan, there are still many other decent places.

If you're young and have good potential, I'd suggest Queens. Queens is the most balanced borough in New York City. They have around 2 1/2 million people. As I said before, New York City isn't as ''dangerous'' as it's always made out to be. Queens is reprentative of this.

Queens, similar to Manhattan, represents a normal proportion of different ethnicities, religions and economic situations throughout the borough. It has good geography. Assuming you're middle-class, you'll pay more for what you can get in Brooklyn. The reason why is because more neighborhoods are run down, and the rich are richer (especially in Park Slope, Brooklyn Heights and downtwon Brooklyn).

Assuming you have two children and you are interested in buying what a mediocre home (especially split end), don't believe what any census report or article that tells you what ''middle class'' is. The elderly doesn't accumulate the salaries as the middle-aged. Immigrants who are new to the country don't always have the same educational equivalence.

The dirt poor is not always a good reprenstative of per capita incomes either. Poverty rates are in the same neighborhood as what they are in the country. In America, it's 20K. In NYC, it's 32K. That is for a family of four. That's 10 bucks an hour in America for 40 hours a week. That's 16 in New York. If you can't make it that far there is a real problem. Unless you are very disabled, anyone could get there.

You need 140K to 160K to be legitimate middle class in Queens. That can mean a nurse and a businessman. Or any variation that can accumulate this. Poverty is at lower capacity in Queens. Queens has many Asian immigrants who come with educational aspirations because the backbones are in the countries they're moving from making it easier for them to make more money.

Queens is also the only place in America that has a population over 70,000 where African-Americans in a year made more than whites. It shows that people there are streamline and for the most part have equal oppurtunity. America should aim to move towards the equality that exists in Queens, New York. If you're young, it's a good place. I'd get in before it gets more expensive than Brooklyn.

If you're older, your interests may vary. Too many older people ditch the New York area which I really don't understand. If you have had that Florida retirement dream and you got the money, it's a good place. Florida is horrible for ''semi-retirement'' unless you're loaded or the job you do doesn't really matter where you live (i.e. internet businesses, truck drivers).

If you like the suburbs or a ''slower-pace'', New Jersey probably isn't for you. New Jersey is over-expensive. If you got a lot of money it's a good place. Upstate New York isn't a bad place to invest. Long Island and Connecticut are great places to live to. I'd stay away from those pathetic ad's in New York paper's about the Pocono's, because it's likely the same house you live in will get knocked down within a couple decades. Stay away from Monroe county.

If you do enter Pennsylvania, don't plan on commuting but want to be near New York City, Bucks county is a good spot. Personally, I like Mercer, Burlington and Camden county which is all not that far from New York. Although not for work (people from Philly actually commute to Jersey a lot) Mercer county doesn't lean towards Philly, in every aspect it relates more to Philly than New York. Burlington county and even parts of Monmouth get limited New York news and depend on comcast which favor Philly.

These spots are decent. It cost a lot. You know what you're getting though. If you can, stay away from the torchering commute to Manhattan. Windy ferries, NJ Transit and traffic is unbarable. Through all, if you got the dough and mentality, Queens is the spot.

[samyn on the green]

That NYC person posted some racism indeed, by the truckload . It looks like the long winded poster is a Jew and has a anti-working class white bias. I wonder what the mods would do if someone made a long winded post about blacks like this? I'm all for everyones right to vent so I hope the mods leave all 78 paragraphs ups. At least his hate is fully rationalized and intelligently expressed.

Originally Posted by mead

As I stated in my title, "Yes Virginia, there is Anti-White Prejudice in New York City..."

This HUGE post, possibly the longest of all of the ones I have seen on City-Data, was filled to the brim with Anti-White, Anti-Catholic, Anti-Italian, and Anti-Working-class bias.

I'm not Italian, don't live in Staten Island, and could count on 2 hands the number of times I've been in Staten Island. I'm just an Irish guy in the Bronx, however this post was a ton of B.S., filled with double-standard, hate whitey propaganda.

You think white people are all a bunch of losers? I'm guessing you'd get defensive real quickly if I started enumerating all of the pathologies that the non-white population in the city has. For example, if white pepople are such loosers, how come over 90% of the nearly half a million people in public housing in this city are Non-White? You repeatedly talked about drugs in your post (even though drug use for the whole popultion, both white and black, is fairly small). I think this might be a problem on your end, but you can rest assured that the majority of people working in civil service in Staten Island are not on drugs. I know a lot of cops and firemen, and beer is about as close as they get to using a mind-altering substance.


Yes certainly white, blue-collar neighborhoods, are not the Upper East Side, and people in these neighborhoods don't pretend to be like that. However most of these neighborhoods, which you seem to have a great disdain for, are nice places to live, and that is why they are still around.

I'm sorry NYC01207...whoever you are. You clearly had some bad experiences in Staten Island, however the problem seems to be on your end and not on Staten Island. Staten Island, is and will remain a nice middle-class suburban area of the city. Far from the apocalyptic picture that you painted in your post, Staten Island is a fairly normal suburb, quite typical of a suburban area in the NYC metro area.

[nyc0127]

First off, how exactly did I post ''racism''? Explain to me any racial remarks I've made. Did you just indirectly admit you're a racist to call me a ''Jew''? By all means, I'm guessing for such an inappropriate remark and assumption, you're from Staten Island.
Although I don't understand how you're any better for publicly assuming I'm a ''Jew'', I appreciate that you consider my posts rationalized and intelligent.

I'm guessing you're white. Even if it's not yourself or immediate family, someone in your distance family is likely civil service oriented. You're probably Catholic. You probably have a lot of stress in your life. The truth about a real man though is they look at themselves in the mirror. If any racist white man who made 200 thousand a year in Manhattan had his job taken by a black man, he'd commend him. He'd say it's time for me to get better.

Personally, I don't even think you came to your own conclusions. I think you're using Mead and other's posts to develop your own opinion. You basically summarized they're opinions in a paragraph added with a little anti-semitism.

You know what they'd do in low-class places like the south or the south shore of Staten Island? They'd say it's because of ''affirmative action''. Even though in reality, the jobs they have require barely any skill to begin with. If you're going to be a bigot, be a real man. If you can't give constructive criticism to yourself, how will you ever get better?

Second off, who are you to judge my posts, if you barely read them? I noted several times that I am Catholic (in the beginning, I called myself by ''title'', ect.) Even if I was Jewish in you're prejudice world, it would be obsolete. Plenty of Jewish people are in the same boat as white catholics in Staten Island anyway.

The other guys may not agree with my posts, but at least they go about themselves with some respect. Mead spoke much properly than others on this post. He used facts, maps and questioned main points I've expressed about Staten Island.
I have no person attacks on anyone.

I'm delivering facts. My opinion has no association with the reality of how behind Staten Island is. Staten Island is behind for all groups. Unfortunetly, prejudisim is a problem there so I needed to go into topics that most are reluctant to ever do to really convey my point.

This is reality people. Look at everything I've said thoroughly. Even if you don't agree, there is nothing I've said that probably isn't at least partly correct. I know what I'm talking about. It's sad that a 19 year old person had to have what it takes to speak out.
If you like your system so much, get an education and improve the infastructure of Staten Island. I don't understand how someone is a bigot because they've explained how someone elses method of bigotry.

It's like the same philosophy of Americans getting irritated when ever a non-English language is spoken. Wouldn't it make us more intelligent to know foreign languages? Listen, Staten Island is pitiful. If there is one person that never wants to live there it would be someone who practiced the Islam faith within a couple years of 9/11. The cops and fireman attempt to disracesfully use this heroic status for the rest of their lives just like Rudy Giuliani's campaigning methods. In a way, it still feels like the anti-muslim sentiment there is like what it was within the first year in the rest of the country. It's accepted to be a bigot in Staten Island if you're around whites. They aren't real men though. They'd never say it to anyones faces.

It is a fact that race is an ongoing topic in the New York media at all moments. If you watch the News, I've heard them go into detail about victims (not even people who commited crimes) into saying ''light skinned hispanic or white male'' (how exactly are you suppose to know someone is Hispanic to begin with? would it be prejudice to assume) or ''dark-skinned hispanic male or black male''. Go to any other city in America with large populations of both. The word ''Hispanic'' is little said. Cops don't identity criminals or victims as that as frequently.

There is a problem throughout the whole New York area, but especially in Staten Island. For anyone who doesn't live in the area, understand what you are coming into. I am from here. I've lived in the area around all different diversity. This is safe to say and you can quote me on this. With the exclusion of the deep south, New York City systemically is the most racist city on the North American continent. With the elevated form of diversity, it seems awkward why that could be such a reality. One form of prejudisim is constantly having stuff reinforced.

I don't know if any of you read this article. It was in several papers. This will illustrates my point. Recently, a case is in the middle of trial. A 17 year old white kid from Long Island was starting trouble with a black kid at a party. Suppodely, the black kid ''threatened'' to rape a girl in an online chat room. That turned out to not even be true.

The 20 year old black kid, wisely went home. He actually lived in a nice home in a nice area too. The white kid called his house saying ''get your n... as back to this party.'' The black kid said no. He came with 5 of his white friends to that 20 year old's house. He tried breaking down his door. Obviously, there wasn't enough time for the cops to come.

So the black kid's dad came outside and told him to get away. He didn't listen. The black father (who was slim and not that strong) pointed a gun at the white kid's face in an attempt to get him off his property. The kid was dumb enough to still try to fight. He tried ripping the gun out of his hand's and one of them shot the white kid dead.

His father is arrested on manslaughter charges. Because his friends acknowledge some of what he did, and it was simple self-defense on someone dumb enough to try to grab a gun out of someone's hands, they'll likely beat it. They might get hit on the charge of illegal possesion of a gun. They probably won't see any prison time though.

Now here is my observation. This kid died. The first paragraph in the editorial of the Post (a low-class paper but I'll use it as an example) said ''His father lied to him. He told him he could be equal and live like any other man.'' That is far from the truth. That kid can live like anyone else. Because of one idiot? By doing this though, the media institued that blacks are treated unfairly.

New York City is 42% white (non Middle-Eastern, non-Latin American). Within that, approximately half is Jewish. Within most of the other 21%, much of it is Catholic (a little Orthodox, a tiny bit of Protestant groups, ect). Before WWII, the Jews were on the better end, and the Catholics usually were on the poorer end. That was primarily true for Italian immigrants. I'm not saying this in a bad way or good way. That is a fact.

The way I see it in this kind of article there was 3 kinds of people who'd read this article. For educated whites and blacks and who ever else, they'd this as kind of like this kid deserved what he got. They wouldn't absorb it. For the educated whites (who tend to be more Jewish - and the media in New York City and the U.S. is very), they love to egg it on.

In this article, they were worse than I am. They discrased that dead kid like he had no right to live. She said his family came from working-class and that in court they were shaking there head when they saw their black family on the other side of the court room. Now, within even the meanest of the working-class whites, they even knew this kid was wrong. But, would the ''worst'' (which isn't a whole lot, but obviously him) ever admit that? No.

They just get pushed apart further from eachother. Poor and lower-middle class blacks would believe that conclusion the journalist came to. They'd do that because they may not live well. Not that many will blame themselves for their poverty. They tend to blame the ''system'' or society. The truth is regardless of you are, if you're a loser, it's no one elses fault except for yours.

But the media and people who let it go one ear through the other are the wealthy. To them, they either don't care, or take amusement out of white trash embarrassing themselves. The media loves to belittle them. They like to make the lower-class blacks feel like they have it bad because of ''uncontrolled circumstances''. They like to make the lower-middle class prejudice whites seem like vermin. They do a damn good job at it too.

So this creates hostility within the two children. Through all, the educated whites don't take the losers seriously. I'm not saying this to sound prejudice, but observe for yourself. The people educated white males in New York City usually have least respect for are prejudice lower-middle class whites. The lower-middle class whites would never societally speak against them. In a way when they attack lower-class blacks, it kind of makes them feel special that they can appreciate ''white priveledge.''

In that case, that kid represented an insignificant proportion of the population. Long Island has good people. Staten Island has good people who are corrupted. Usually, they don't understand this until they see outside the box and leave Staten Island. When they do, they often realize they'd never want to go back.

If any of you have any questions you want to ask me, my e-mail is nyj01827@yahoo.com. Remember, I was a descendant of this problem in the south shore of Staten Island. I see systematic prejudism in my family all the time. I am nothing like them because I am an independent open-minded educated person.

By the samyn on the green, keep you're prejudisim to yourself. That line you said was the definition of the word ignorance. There is a reason why you guys are still reading and responding to my posts. That is because the points I'm making are somewhat true and I speak properly (unlike yourself).

[samyn on the green]

It is not right to attack somebody on here but the truth of the matter is that you are a verbose windbag . One or two sentences should be able to express your point on a message board. There is beauty in simplicity.

The few times I have been to Staten Island I always had a great time with decent hardworking people. The white working class that was pushed out of Brooklyn found a home there. Their culture is extinct in Manhattan and the Bronx. It is nice that the white working class still have their dignity in Staten Island along with a place to be with their own people.


Working class and white in the 5 boroughs is like being a refugee in Darfur. Like a refugee caught in a war, safety is constantly being compromised by those that dwell in the projects. Then on the other hand we have the trust fund liberal whites/Jews who have the highest disdain and hatred for working class whites. It has been their desire/policy to replace them with cheap labor diversity. Their plan has worked over the last 30 years. So like refugees most working class whites have been pushed out of the city. The NYC White working class should go the UN en masse and apply for refugee status. The diatribe of hatred posted above is a good example of the persecution they face when trying to make a living in this city. Their only refuge is the garbage dump known as Richmond county/Staten Island.

[bigd4535]

Short Post with Relevant Information

If you are seriously considering moving to Staten Island, then you should look at the North Shore. I was born and raised in Staten Island and lived there for 20 years before leaving for college in Massachusetts. I must agree with some of the posters, South Shore culture is deffinitely lacking. If you are a person from the city then you would feel more at home on the North Shore. West Brighton, Grymes Hill, Ward Hill, St. George, are all nice neigborhoods. Yes, the people on the South Shore generally have more money than those on the North Shore but I would not describe them as affluent. Its more of a Good-fellas/Sopranos vibe with lots of tans, fake nails, and tract houses. And many South Shore residents are heavily in debt and live way above their means as this forclosure map illustrates:

http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/nymagforemap1.jpg (broken link)

[samyn on the green]

Originally Posted by nyc0127

First off, how exactly did I post ''racism''? Explain to me any racial remarks I've made. Did you just indirectly admit you're a racist to call me a ''Jew''? By all means, I'm guessing for such an inappropriate remark and assumption, you're from Staten Island.

You refered to working class European Americans as loser whites no less than 5 times in your posts. Then you degraded the European-Americans that protect you as cops. I pegged you as a Jew which is the same as you calling me a white, I did not call you a loser Jew. I prefer to be called European American and I am proud of my working class roots and my family. Is it really educated and high class to call some of the posters families on here loser whites? What is worst loser white or Jew? Maybe when your nose is lowered from the upright position it is indeed you that is the racist/intolerant one.


You even went so far to degrade the European-Americans that work for the NY sanitation department, calling their job easy and for the dumb. How would you know that there job is easy money? You claim to be 19 years old, did you ever have to handle a few tons of peoples waste, rotting food and dog feces on a sweltering, sultry summer day. Exposing their selves to massive amounts of bacteria and virus, is that not worth $35 an hour? You should know all about rubbish living on a trash dump for the first 15 years of your life, but you seem to have missed that experience so far. Maybe one day when you pull away from mommy and daddy's warm teet and may find yourself in a humble position. Better not make 100 paragraph posts on random message board and keep up the studies, the garbage is waiting for you.


Have you ever considered that is time to stop thumbing your nose at your former neighbors and friends on Staten Island. Are you really that much better than them? Perhaps with more life experience you may come to the conclusion that they are just commonly decent people making ends meet. Perhaps with a little more life experience you may actually realize the reason you hate them so much is because they are you and you hate yourself. Staten Island really isn't that bad a place is it?


How do you feel about your new neighbors in Camden NJ? Maybe Mommy could drop you off there since it is close by. With a nice trip to Camden you can finally have an experience outside of pokemon, video games or the mall. Be sure to tell us how your Camden nighttime excursion goes and how it compares to your adolescent horror show with the boorish loser whites of Staten Island.

Staten Island is a decent place, you just need to see more of the world.

[Marc Oh!]

NYC0127,

If the kids in SI use the same grammar and spelling as you, then you're right, they probably are uneducated. Some of your arguments seem halfway decent, but I just can't take them seriously when the spelling is that bad.

I'll agree, SI can seem to be a world of it's own, filled with eccentric personalities and people who are carbon copies of each other. But it's a nice place to live if you want to raise a family and stay within the 5 boroughs. I moved from Philly to Bensonhurst about a year ago. I'm 24, if I stay here long term, I'd definitely consider buying a house in SI, I enjoy going there. Then again, I'm Italian Catholic, so I might be a little biased. I do like Bensonhurst, as long as Italians don't completely disperse from here.

By the way, there's plenty of trash in South Jersey. And over half of Philly is a total sh*thole, the crime rate is MUCH higher than NYC (2/3 the murders but only 1/6 the population). And many whites there are just as racist, b/c they're basically losing their city. The working class whites (which you seem to dislike) held that city together and now that they're fleeing, the city is going down the drain. Don't get me wrong, I love where I'm from and think people are more down-to-earth. But hey, I wouldn't say it's any better to live than SI.

[nyc0127]

Samyn on the green, I'm glad you understand that it isn't right to attack one another. However, at least get through one more sentence before trying to insult me again. When I called you prejudice for coming to the assumption that I was a ''Jew'' (even though I explained multiple times what I am), I had plausible reasoning. What exactly was your reasoning that any intelligent person would respect or understand?

I know people who are just like you. They've been to Staten Island. When they were there, it wasn't all that bad. If you're only there a few times for little amount of time, you don't get a taste for what it really is. That's the same with every place. Florida may be a beautiful vacation or retirement spot, but for many it's not an advisable place to live.

The ''working class'' whites developed a new culture. They weren't predominantly civil service workers before they got there. Like the other guy, you're still thinking of Staten Island as a legitimate borough of New York City. With the except of technicalities, that isn't true. The real estate market is different, the sociology and intellectuality are completely different. Although that ''culture'' may be extinct for whites in the rest of the city, there are individuals who still follow that same lines.

Personally, I have no problem with it. It's how they go about themselves that bothers me. They're prejudice. They're plastic. They need to belittle people (particularly poor non-whites) in order to compensate for the fact they could never wave a bachelor's degree in your face.

I'm not going to explode. I actually somewhat agree with that ''refugee'' quote. It might seem awkward for such a place to exist in the New York City area, but it's fairly common to see lower-middle class and blue collared white societies throughout the country.

Liberal whites really associate with working-class whites that much. They usually don't live in the same areas, so there interaction is limited. The educated whites are kind of like the bullies. They run the show. The non-educated whites are usually so minimal and scattered that they have no face.

Another thing, the projects are seizing to exist in New York City. Ask Mo Vaughn that. He's bought out some of the dirtiest buildings in downtown Brooklyn and turned them into really nice apartments that could command most of your mortgages. The land is worth too much. If you can't afford to live in New York City, you don't have the right to live there. Lower-income will likely remain because it says people are paying rent and are trying to progress.

As far as ''cheap/labor'' diversity goes, hasn't that been the story of each generation in New York? Now, it's Dominicans, south Americans and other groups. In the 60's and 70's it was Puerto Rican immigrants. For the first half of the 20th century, it was Italians. Who do you think treated all those groups like garbage during their rough times? Wealthy whites. Why are they so reluctant to ever taking a swing at them?

Although it's not much, if you were a prejudice person of Italian descent on Staten Island, how would it make sense to attack people who never did anything to you? If you ever hear prejudice, it's aimed at blacks, asians, muslims, jews, immigrants and a load of other groups. Were they the ones who treated them like garbage in America? In New Orleans in the 1890's, several Italian immigrants were lynched. Look at the Sacco and Vanzetti incident in Boston. Try getting an idiot on Staten Island to believe that. If you ever said someone of Italian descent was ''ethnic'' on Staten Island, they'd be the ones exploding.

I was skimming through the Staten Island Advance (It really isn't worth reading), and I saw something about a ''KKK meeting'' in Great Kills. It said there were eight members. Almost every white christian was probably catholic. Weren't catholics a target of the KKK? How do you think they would have seen Italian immigrants?
Apparently though, some people on Staten Island like curving their families history and heritage to how it fits their minds similar to how Malcomb X did with Islam.

No one pushed them out of the city. They pushed themselves out. They could have remained where they were or went to a better suburb. They couldn't continue to live the way they do though. Most of America did this. Through all, we both agree that it is a ''garbage dump''. From the way you make it sound, you sound you got less respect for that place than I do. If that's the case, than we're probably on the same page, even if you disagree with how I'm presenting this information.

[nyc0127]

I didn't refer to working-class European Americans are losers whites. If that's the way you took it, than I'm sorry and didn't mean that. I mean that prejudice whites are losers. What I meant to point out is that usually coincides with non-education, working-class and hostile people in New York City.

By all means, working-class people can and usually are as nice and respectful as educated people. As far as police officers go, I don't degrade them. I degraded the infrastructure of the NYPD, that allowed so many people who were never mentally cut out to be cops, to become cops. I degraded the fact that someone would wash away any potential they had because they believed civil service (as a broad category) was the only line of work they were capable of doing. It's horrible for anyone to underachieve. If you do though, you should go about it in a respectful manner (which many don't do).

I come from the same kind of family as you. My father is working class. I am not calling those families losers. I'm saying the prejudice ones are. We all know bigots exist everywhere. However, in few places, does the infrastructure allow or even go as far to promote bigotry sometimes. Sadly to say, Staten Island happens to be one of those places (especially the south shore).

I would know that it's easy money and a skill-less job because my uncle does it. Honestly, I don't know what my uncle would have did for a living if it weren't for that. He'd probably be bouncing from job to job. He's miserable. He married into money and lives in a nice home in upstate New York. Is it right that a sanitation worker is picking up trash in an immigrated neighborhood in the Bronx that he isn't even from?

Isn't he stealing a job from someone who could use it a lot more? Because he married into money and education, he's constantly reminded of how low class he is. He's one of the most miserable men you'll meet.
I know it's not that bad and lucky for sanitation workers all the time. However, I have had personal experience I can relate that would allow me to know the knowledge of this. He's told me what his job duties were. Every thing I described to you about the sanitation was factual.

Honestly, I never knew how it was to handle trash and don't want. For who wants to do it, I give them respect. I'm arguing about the economical part of it though. No matter where you are in this country, it pays relatively similar. You start out around 15-20 an hour, and max out in the 50's (assuming you don't make it into management). There is filthy trash all over this country, so you could make the argument they should be paid more everywhere. They aren't though. So therefore, a sanitation worker doesn't deserve $35 an hour.

This is simple economics. There are too many sanitation workers. If they're only working 4 hours a day, than they should cut the department by one-third or simply not hire until the numbers are proportional. The same thing applies to the NYPD. They're hiring less. They're making it a job that is less lucrative. They've lowered the salary, enhanced the educational requirements and cut down on all the BS.

With the FDNY, they have too many too. The only thing I respect about the sanitation, NYPD and other city jobs that I don't about the FDNY is that they are fair to all. Go back to that theory I made about the new cops coming about fifty years ago. The U.S. government is federally investigating why it's so racially disproportional. Some people say that it's because it's a family oriented job. That's BS. Anyone is willing to do it, especially considering it pays 10 grand more a year than cops get after 10 years. No dad can help get a child a job in the real world, so why should it be any different there?


Believe me, I know about all the ''rubbish'' on Staten Island. It's unfortunate that I think that more of the people more than the odor on the West Shore express way on a July afternoon. I won't be touching any trash in my life, so don't worry. My studies are right where they are. They give a little thing called winter recess during college. I work retail part-time, so I still have a little time to talk to an annoyance like yourself.

I'd like to believe that all are decent people. Many really are. The society isn't though. A few people with mouths ruin it for everyone. Much of my distaste with Staten Island really only centers around the south-shore. I saw a recent post on here about preferring people to move to the north-shore. If you do choose to move to Staten Island, he's right. That place is able to handle more, because it's more economically, educationally and religiously diverse. Not everyone tends to look like one another there too.

Very few from the south shore would ever move to the north shore. Because rent is so minimal (the south shore doesn't have apartment buildings - yet), or too expensive because it's in the form of two-family houses, many get stuck living with mommy and daddy because they're scared of living around ''diversity.'' In fact, some refer to Aspen Knolls (a lower-middle class townhouse community) as the ''south shore ghetto'', because it has more diversity than the rest of the south shore.

What is a place where people from lower-ended places come to, yet no people better or even the same come to? That's called a ghetto. Or politely, a below average semi-urban enclave. If I were to rate Staten Island on a 1-10 scale considering everything (assuming 5 is average), I'd rate it a 3. I'd rate the south shore a 1. Staten Island has hope. As I said though, it's status quo is horrible and it's direction isn't good.

I don't hate myself, because I'm not one of them. I don't hate them either. Have a conversation with all the ''good Staten Islanders'' that ditched out to places like Manalapan, Redbank and Howell. Even if they don't express themselves as openly as I do, they'd be reluctant to ever going back.

Camden isn't all that close. It's around 25 minutes away. It would be like saying to someone in Tottenville, go to Stapleton. I've been to Camden and can tell you it's as bad as it's reputation is. I know good people from there though. They may not come from good situations a decent amount of the time, but they know in order to make it in the real world, they'd have to be quiet and go about themselves respectfully. I'd much rather be around a lower-middle class Camden resident than a kid on the south shore who calls everyone gay and can't even say the word bro right.

People on Staten Island fear places like ''Park Hill'', yet they're really not as bad as they are. It's just they're stigma against ''black people.'' How bad could a ''ghetto'' really be, if it was developed primarily in a suburban method? Lastly, stay away from the ''belittle attempts'' of me. How much of a man really are you if you're trying to insult a person you've never even seen?

[Marc Oh!]

Originally Posted by nyc0127

I know people who are just like you. They've been to Staten Island. When they were there, it wasn't all that bad. If you're only there a few times for little amount of time, you don't get a taste for what it really is. That's the same with every place. Florida may be a beautiful vacation or retirement spot, but for many it's not an advisable place to live.

You're right, but I haven't just been there a few times. I have very good friends there who are like a second family to me and I spend alot of time there. I know people from SI are a little different, but I like it there. I feel at home being in any Italian neighborhood I guess.

Originally Posted by nyc0127

No one pushed them out of the city. They pushed themselves out.

When your neighborhood turns to crap and it's not as safe to walk down the street anymore, I'd say you're being pushed out. I've seen it happen my whole life. You can't blame white people for wanting to get out of those situations. For example, my grandmother's neighborhood turned pretty bad. 5 years before she moved out, my father advised her to get out while she still could, when it was all starting and the neighborhood was changing. She waited until the neighborhood was completely in ruins and sold her house for a mere 60K, then finding herself with a new mortgage exponentially higher than that.