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I am a longtime resident of the Woodstock/Mott Haven community and from time to time I get into it with the "local" residents, mostly because they are simply ignorant, inconsiderate, and "it's what they have always done." I really don't care if nobody complains that you play your music from 1am -3 am every night or that you have been doing it for 25 years. It is annoying me and there are laws that are in place to prevent you from doing that.. (this is just an example)
So it's not just the newbies, I get into it with people about litter, housing, noise, neighborhood changes, etc. It is just small minded/ignorant people who have little concept of anything besides their immediate surroundings and experiences. I could care less about assimilating into any community...I will abide by the laws of NYC, and do and say what I feel within those bounds within reason. If we all simply assimilated into the prior resident's culture, we would all be practicing Native American culture, or if we want to move past that, we would all be speaking German and practicing that culture.
My most recent experience was with an "old timer" who heard me and some friends discussing the new trees in the area. He felt compelled to come by and tell us "none of it matters, nobody cares about the Bronx" blah blah blah. To which I replied, you have been here long enough to know 30 years ago these blocks were rubble and now what do you see? He didn't care, it was all the same to him. A shouting match quickly ensued and within 5 minutes "He blamed Jews like me and my friends for ruining the neighborhood." Of course none of us are Jewish, and I unleashed a tirade in Spanish to set him and his ignorance straight. The lesson here: Ignorance is the rule of the day, and these people don't care about facts or truth. The truth is what they decide and see fit, and if you go against that you are hurled with racial slurs, anti-poor, branded a racist, and the list goes on and on.
This issue is really about educated residents (new and old) versus small minded/ignorant residents with little experience outside of a 4 block radius. They don't own the neighborhood anymore than the guy who just bought a house next door, nor do they have the ability to do whatever it is they want just because they "have always done it." Don't buy into the ignorance or accept that BS excuse. It's call change...that's why we elected Obama remember?
good points made by all but i really think the bottom line is people who think they may feel uncomfortable in an area should not move there, for whatever reason. if you know the neighborhood has issues with noise then why move there? and if they move without checking out the area first then thats clearly bad judgement.
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"The man who sleeps on the floor, can never fall out of bed." -Martin Lawrence
I can understand loud music playing around time of festivities but on a Sunday night and you have to go to work the next day, yeah I would not stand that regardless if I was a new comer or native. I'm a native but a new comer too a neighborhood where it's predominantly west indian's. So ofcourse when Labor Day comes around you will here the loud music, can't get to mad. But I know of new comers to this neighborhood that call the cops on small kids playing ball outside in the middle of the day? How is that in anyway threating or disorderly?
Seventh I don't accept the idea of "you know the area has issues with music therefore don't move there'. That's a really poor attitude and as a society how could we have ever moved forward if people just accepted the way things are and never tried to improve? "Hey you know that Times Square is full of prostitution and junkies, so if you go to NYC just don't go there"....I am glad that we went in and CHANGED Times Square and didn't just accept it for what it is. This is an extreme example but it proves my point.
Life doesn't just stand still, and despite the politicians' best efforts to maintain some neighborhoods in a 4 generation time warp to keep themselves in office, as a society we must move forward and change is inevitable. You don't like the noise, you can bet there are a WHOLE BUNCH of "locals" who don't like the noise either..rally them to your side and whatch the changes unfold. Don't like the thugs dealing drugs on the corner, you can bet a WHOLE BUNCH of locals don't like it either...organize and watch the thugs move on.
You have the power to impact small and large change to your community and it's okay to remake it into something that you like...you live there and have every right to do/say whatever you want, regardless of the names you will inevitably called by small minded people.
SobroGuy, I generally agree with you that things must start somewhere so that change can happen. However, the reasons why Times Square cleaned up have more to do with an overarching economic and political agenda present from the 70s - early 2000s than persistence by the local citizenry. People complained about bad areas in NYC since the 60s and nothing happened until it proved profitable.
As for avoiding unsafe places, I think it's SMART. If I know that an area is full of prostitution and junkies and I'm not comfortable with that, I am not going there.
To this day I am skeptical of going to Howard Beach because as a black person, I am scared. If anyone can convince me why it's now safe to go there, I am all ears.
In the meantime, I am supportive of change and I would suggest that forward-thinking, like-minded people (old-timers and newcomers) attempt to build block associations to improve living conditions. Work closely with the local politicians and the authorities in the best interest of everyone in the neighborhood to insist upon improvements. Yelling at the people on the corner by yourself won't accomplish much and it could put your own safety in jeopardy.
Queens girl I agree with your last statement whole heartedly. Times Square was just an example of not just accepting things for the way they were. The reasons for the change are moot..the changes happened because there was an impetus and the will, and not just simply sitting back and accepting it.
As a society we have rarely just sat back and accepted things for what they were, so not sure why some believe we should do so regarding neighborhoods? This issue is more about ignorance than anything else...whitey is not trying to steal "your" home or neighborhood anymore than you (or your parents/grandparents) tried to steal whitey's neighborhood when you moved in. Change happens....and I don't accept the BS excuse of "well you should assimilate"....as soon as we get rid of every ethnic enclave in NYC and we all "assimilate" back to the original Dutch and English cultures, I will continue to impact change where I see fit..as should everyone else. Don't let small minded people make you believe otherwise.
Lakeman, you will tolerate SOME noise in the entertainment districts (you mean Broadway/Times Square I presume), however those businesses also have noise ordinances and repercussions for not following them. They don't simply do what they want because "it is a noisy area so too bad." That is not the case, and as a result it is actually relatively quiet considering, no doubt thanks to people who did not listen to that BS excuse. You are welcome to accept your upstairs neighbor who enjoys listening to music from 12 am -4 am everyday "because he always has"...but I won't..and neither should anyone else.
I disagree. I believe that we have a right to expect some minimal standard of living when we move into an area. That includes enforcement of noise ordinances. They are there for a reason.
There are probably many in such neighborhoods, a working single mom with kids who need their sleep maybe, or some elderly or ill person, who would give much to keep peace and quiet in the neighborhood at night.
The only reason why the noise makers get away with it is that they are thought of, and may very well be, low life thugs. People fear brutes, which gives them some small pleasure because in most of their lives they are probably failures.
Either we treat each other like civilized humans or we revert back to the status of beasts. This, to me, is not that the noise makers are part of a community. It is more that they lack a true sense of community and only think of themselves with a disregard and lack of respect for the needs of others.
I agree with this. Luckily, my block never gets too loud (and is actually rather quiet at times), but when people yell at the top of their lungs in the middle of the night or engage in disruptive behavior, it does bother me, and I do call the police. Just because someone is a newcomer doesn't mean they have to tolerate the selfish and anti-social behavior of some inconsiderate local.
My dear, where have you been? Wake up and smell the Starbucks! (lol)
The area around Bruckner Blvd/Bruckner Expressway is becoming tragically hip. There's some cafes and bars around there, and the area also sports some antique stores and such. Some loft bldgs since of course all the spots in NYC by the rivers used to be industrial ports.
Look up the Bruckner Bar and Grill as one example--a bar/restaurant *** art gallery. In fact, City Island alone has 3 or 4 galleries, and then there's the Bronx Museum of the arts (recently renovated), Lehman College Gallery, Hostos CC Gallery, El Foco, etc.
And there are areas like Kingsbridge, Riverdale, Country Club, City Island, et al that have been solidly middle class/gentrified all along.
well city line, kingsbridge , riverside, and country club were always nice areas(some parts of kingsbridge though
I am a longtime resident of the Woodstock/Mott Haven community and from time to time I get into it with the "local" residents, mostly because they are simply ignorant, inconsiderate, and "it's what they have always done." I really don't care if nobody complains that you play your music from 1am -3 am every night or that you have been doing it for 25 years. It is annoying me and there are laws that are in place to prevent you from doing that.. (this is just an example)
So it's not just the newbies, I get into it with people about litter, housing, noise, neighborhood changes, etc. It is just small minded/ignorant people who have little concept of anything besides their immediate surroundings and experiences. I could care less about assimilating into any community...I will abide by the laws of NYC, and do and say what I feel within those bounds within reason. If we all simply assimilated into the prior resident's culture, we would all be practicing Native American culture, or if we want to move past that, we would all be speaking German and practicing that culture.
My most recent experience was with an "old timer" who heard me and some friends discussing the new trees in the area. He felt compelled to come by and tell us "none of it matters, nobody cares about the Bronx" blah blah blah. To which I replied, you have been here long enough to know 30 years ago these blocks were rubble and now what do you see? He didn't care, it was all the same to him. A shouting match quickly ensued and within 5 minutes "He blamed Jews like me and my friends for ruining the neighborhood." Of course none of us are Jewish, and I unleashed a tirade in Spanish to set him and his ignorance straight. The lesson here: Ignorance is the rule of the day, and these people don't care about facts or truth. The truth is what they decide and see fit, and if you go against that you are hurled with racial slurs, anti-poor, branded a racist, and the list goes on and on.
This issue is really about educated residents (new and old) versus small minded/ignorant residents with little experience outside of a 4 block radius. They don't own the neighborhood anymore than the guy who just bought a house next door, nor do they have the ability to do whatever it is they want just because they "have always done it." Don't buy into the ignorance or accept that BS excuse. It's call change...that's why we elected Obama remember?
if the locals have been blasting music since 1 am - 3 am for the past 25 years, that pretty much means the locals are use to it and have no problems, and no im not Moderator cut: Language cause i see this all the time in crown heights.
but for a newcomer to come and start bossing people around... doesnt work that way.
you have the preference of choosing a area that fits you , why leave that area to go a area with massive noise but then complain?
Last edited by bmwguydc; 06-08-2010 at 11:26 AM..
Reason: Language
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