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OK, first I can't question housing costs in another state; that said I could simply use the example house in Victor move it closer to NYC and triple it's cost. No HOA would even come close to that expense.
But looking at your examples:
Waterford of the Carolinas:
A luxury waterfront community who's amenities include "Canoe, paddle boat, kayak to the 14 ac. Osprey Lake. Waterford is an amenity rich community. Large clubhouse includes fitness center, billiards room, screened patio for entertaining and full kitchen for private functions. Large pool, 6 lighted tennis courts, bocce ball courts, sand volleyball court, playground and 14 ac. Osprey Lake." Plus I will guess trash, public lighting and gate security are included.
Not bad for $90 a month
Tampa: No clear statement, many seem to run high and what is provided is across the board. One did mention that the homeowners insurance is paid with their HOA. I can not decipher what type/location of housing they are referring to.
Arizona: Posters on both examples are generalizing with no clear expense noted.
Virginia: Your examples cover a lot of areas but to say 50/60 a month seems average with community features such as pool, tennis court, play grounds part of it. Trash is included on many examples, some mention cable/internet.
All the examples mention a reserve fund/roof fund when they are condo's or some type of tower dwelling.
What this shows is communities with HOA's provide features and services that you are bound to pay for if you choose to live in that community. Is there bad management? very possible with many of the older communities in Florida but I am not researching their housing. No where do I see HOA fees that even come close to higher tax burden that communities in NY must shoulder.
You are missing my point and those amenities are similar to taxes people pay for public municipal parks and recreation. My point is that just looking at real property taxes is just one aspect to look at, as property taxes are carried out differently and HOA's MAY be a cost to keep in mind due to a higher prevalence in many Southern areas. This is on top of the median home prices that tend to be higher than Upstate(key word)NY areas. When I said that last part, I'm thinking in terms of similar sized/roomed homes for relatively similar areas. While factors like age, walkability(or the lack thereof), etc will come into play on a personal level, looking at things with strict criteria without factor interference, for lack of a better term, is what some are referring to. So, you may pay more to the government or more to the bank/financial institution, just pick your poison.
To be fair, add generally a longer drive/commute, subtract tolls outside of the Thruway, add personal property taxes, more apt to run into an HOA, longer/hotter summer(subjective I know) as well. Pros and cons can be found either way.
Another way to look at median home price is that the high end homes don't cost as much and similar homes just cost more in these Southern areas. Again, it is median, not average home prices. There is a difference, as the median is just the middle home price that splits the homes in an area in half. So, if an area's median is 220k, half of the homes can be anywhere above or below that figure. Another way to look at this is to say that it is the middle price where the total homes meet at.
Nonsense. This is purely speculation that you HAVE to live too far from work, or HAVE to be in a HOA, or pay some significant sum of money for personal property taxes. Also, few people complain about 9 months of warm weather.
Go to Realtor.com. Plug in the range of $100k to 200k single family homes. There are 2710 homes within a 20 mile radius of Raleigh. There are 1174 within a 20 mile radius of Rochester. So, once again, I ask what does median home price mean in real world scenarios?
The answer is nothing. There are more than 2x as many homes in the $100k to 200k range in two similar sized areas. So, who cares if there are more $1 million homes in the South skewing the number up? How does that affect me or the average homebuyer?
BTW, there are also nearly equal numbers of homes from $75k to 100k. So, only if you are in the market for a $50k house does it really pay to stay in Rochester. However, even then, when I ran the numbers, the taxes on a $50k house and the virtual lack of tax on a $50k Raleigh house still make the Raleigh homes cheaper.
No matter what, $50k is not getting you anything great in either area. Its a moot point, to be honest. Even if you are broke as hell, the Southern metros still come out ahead.
I left New York and the furthest south I went was Virginia.
When I got homesick and wanted to possibly move back I found that with the exception of Manhattan or Westchester most of New York was affordable again with the exception of Manhattan or Westchester.
I found a home in rural Virginia that needs some work but with hardwood floors, fireplace, 3 bedrooms and 1 bath, full size basement, they wanted 119k, I got in the home with the option to buy, still deciding if I want it since our youngest graduates high school in 2015 and the home is right across from the high school.
I'm not sure if you can find this good of a deal in any part of New York but I've seen nice little homes up there for 140k nowhere near the city of Westchester of course.
All this back and forth is crazy.
Fact is, I live in a house here that is comparable to my old home in NY. By comparable, I mean about the same size, quality, and market value. My location and neighborhood is better here; well, actually, it is more gorgeous. The lot size here is smaller, but not small. So, all all-in-all, it's apples and apples as far as the houses being compared.
Taxes in NY were 15K/yr. Taxes here are about 2500/yr. Utilties are less. Upkeep is less... No snow plowing costs. No driveway resealing. No leaf clean up costs. Cost of basic services are less.
Among other things, taxes here pay for trash pickup, bulk pickup, and they come every week to pick up yard waste we leave out in front.
(And unlike NY, it's clean everywhere here. You don't see a scrap of waste along the roads or in parking lots anywhere.; people are respectful.)
It used to be more than a 90 minute costly nightmare commute into NYC. It was hours and hours to a beach. We're now around 30/40 minutes to Charleston and lots of beaches. I'll take the latter, any day.
We also have a lot more shopping /eating/entertainment options locally within a close drive. Gas is cheaper here, too.
It was 70 degrees today, and I wasn't heating my house. I was instead walking the streets of Charleston without a jacket.
I'm not quite sure how anyone could argue that it costs less to live anywhere in New York. Even up in the NY boondocks, it's going to cost more comparably than the boondocks here.
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Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
You are missing my point and those amenities are similar to taxes people pay for public municipal parks and recreation. My point is that just looking at real property taxes is just one aspect to look at, as property taxes are carried out differently and HOA's MAY be a cost to keep in mind due to a higher prevalence in many Southern areas. This is on top of the median home prices that tend to be higher than Upstate(key word)NY areas. When I said that last part, I'm thinking in terms of similar sized/roomed homes for relatively similar areas. While factors like age, walkability(or the lack thereof), etc will come into play on a personal level, looking at things with strict criteria without factor interference, for lack of a better term, is what some are referring to. So, you may pay more to the government or more to the bank/financial institution, just pick your poison.
You are under a delusion that without the HOA providing facilities none would exist in a community; they exist just fine but parents with small children would rather walk to a neighborhood play area than having to get in a car and travel..... What are you going to say next that there is a park on every corner in upstate NY...
Have you ever thought that median home prices run higher elsewhere is because jobs pay more??? If the salaries weren't paying people wouldn't be buying. At least when I sell my median priced home the profit I make will allow me to move to most average priced locations in the county what does your allow, moving to another below average COL community like Detroit?
Continue to believe that HOA's will cost you as much as your tax obligation when you are paying County, Village (maybe), School, Road, and maybe even Library, Fire, Sewer taxes. This all started with me and another poster comparing a similar new construction home not picking a location that's outside a village or an adjoining town so taxes are less. The taxes is Victor are $23.96/$1000, In Baldwin they would be $39.12/$1000, In Clay they would be $96.74/$1000 here outside Richmond they would be $8.70/$1000. Even if I pay $100 a month for an HOA I would still be paying less on the same $250,000 house than you will paying your taxes.....
You are under a delusion that without the HOA providing facilities none would exist in a community; they exist just fine but parents with small children would rather walk to a neighborhood play area than having to get in a car and travel..... What are you going to say next that there is a park on every corner in upstate NY...
Have you ever thought that median home prices run higher elsewhere is because jobs pay more??? If the salaries weren't paying people wouldn't be buying. At least when I sell my median priced home the profit I make will allow me to move to most average priced locations in the county what does your allow, moving to another below average COL community like Detroit?
Continue to believe that HOA's will cost you as much as your tax obligation when you are paying County, Village (maybe), School, Road, and maybe even Library, Fire, Sewer taxes. This all started with me and another poster comparing a similar new construction home not picking a location that's outside a village or an adjoining town so taxes are less. The taxes is Victor are $23.96/$1000, In Baldwin they would be $39.12/$1000, In Clay they would be $96.74/$1000 here outside Richmond they would be $8.70/$1000. Even if I pay $100 a month for an HOA I would still be paying less on the same $250,000 house than you will paying your taxes.....
Definitely missing the point now. It is about overall costs. An HOA CAN be a substantial added cost on top of real and personal property costs, as well the housing costs. That is what I'm talking about and I'm comparing similar homes sizes/rooms, not price. I wouldn't look at price due to the different barometers for median home costs. That is why the median home price/value is used.
Keep in mind, we are talking about much of Upstate NY, not for the whole state. Baldwin or the Hudson Valley is going to cost more than Richmond or Charleston due to the location of Baldwin and the Hudson Valley.
As for commutes, take that up with the census, as they take such information.
I also doubt that there are many homes of quality under 100k in these other areas due to demand, which push home prices up.
This was actually started by a poster making a snarky comments about homes Upstate in response to post made to a poster supposedly from NC about COL. In turn, the COL statement was explained to that poster.
As for the moving comment, it appears that people up here are able to move and have been able to stay in their home comparably due to the lack of booms and busts.
Lastly, people need to stop using the Detroit area as a whipping boy, as that area has some of the nicest suburbs and it is ironic that the people that use it would move to the suburbs anyway.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 12-28-2014 at 08:22 AM..
I still haven't seen anyone disprove what VA Yankee and I are saying with regard to cost of living. As I've shown, there are 2-3 times the number of homes in some of these areas at the low end of the price range. Volume and variety of homes in your price range I think would matter more to most. You buy what you can afford and you want the most choices.
As for commutes, looking at census statistics to decide where to commute from makes no sense. Some of the longest commute times in the nation, for example, are in the Poconos. So, you either make a conscious choice when you move there to commute to NYC or you work locally and have a normal, short commute. Like the other statistics, its about lifestyle choices. The Poconos, for instance, is not a high traffic area. So, it doesn't even equate to traffic amounts.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
Definitely missing the point now. It is about overall costs. An HOA CAN be a substantial added cost on top of real and personal property costs, as well the housing costs. That is what I'm talking about and I'm comparing similar homes sizes/rooms, not price. I wouldn't look at price due to the different barometers for median home costs. That is why the median home price/value is used.
Keep in mind, we are talking about much of Upstate NY, not for the whole state. Baldwin or the Hudson Valley is going to cost more than Richmond or Charleston due to the location of Baldwin and the Hudson Valley.
As for commutes, take that up with the census, as they take such information.
I also doubt that there are many homes of quality under 100k in these other areas due to demand, which push home prices up.
This was actually started by a poster making a snarky comments about homes Upstate in response to post made to a poster supposedly from NC about COL. In turn, the COL statement was explained to that poster.
As for the moving comment, it appears that people up here are able to move and have been able to stay in their home comparably due to the lack of booms and busts.
Lastly, people need to stop using the Detroit area as a whipping boy, as that area has some of the nicest suburbs and it is ironic that the people that use it would move to the suburbs anyway.
My last word with this because you and I will go round and round till the cows come home...
Believe what you want about HOA's; is it a cost to consider in some communities, I agree that it is and as I said you choose to live that way. My home example with the other poster was the same size (maybe larger) and features, I wasn't comparing a 3br/1ba ranch. It still costs less per month with it's potential HOA bill then the tax burden it would have in Ontario, Onondaga or any other county you want to drop it in NY. I meant Baldwinsville not Baldwin, my bad but the tax figure is from the Onondaga Counties tax page .
You talk barometers and median house costs whatever I say a $100K home in Victor owes $2396.00 in taxes and $870.00 here that is a fact.
Your boom and bust statement might be critiqued by other posters who would say it went bust years ago and nothing has change, I will leave that for them to dissect. And when I start reading that upstate cities are the new boom and people are rushing to move there I will believe it.
Finally Detroit blew it, not the average Joe but the industry's that they relied on. Corruption & greed caused the city to implode. So no matter how nice the suburbs are people aren't lining up to move there.
I left New York and the furthest south I went was Virginia.
When I got homesick and wanted to possibly move back I found that with the exception of Manhattan or Westchester most of New York was affordable again with the exception of Manhattan or Westchester.
I found a home in rural Virginia that needs some work but with hardwood floors, fireplace, 3 bedrooms and 1 bath, full size basement, they wanted 119k, I got in the home with the option to buy, still deciding if I want it since our youngest graduates high school in 2015 and the home is right across from the high school.
I'm not sure if you can find this good of a deal in any part of New York but I've seen nice little homes up there for 140k nowhere near the city of Westchester of course.
Also, keep in mind of the property you can get at a price point as well.
If you want to get an idea of a town, zip code, county, metro about a mortgage/median mortgage, this is a great website: USA Location information - USA.com
For instance, say you want something rural and low/lower taxes, Lewis County comes to mind. So, here is some housing info for that county: Lewis County, NY Housing - USA.comâ„¢ You'll see that for those paying on a mortgage, the median payment is $1073 a month. So, half of said people there pay less and half pay more or another way to look at it is to say it is that when putting the mortgage payers in order, that is the middle number. This is where the sliding scale of how much home you get in relation to price may come in.
Baldwinsville is a village, Radisson is in the town of Lysander and 13027 includes the towns of Van Buren, Lysander and the village of Baldwinsville. So, you have to look accordingly and also at least keep STAR in mind, which can be viewed in a website above.
Detroit(the city) suffered from being too reliant on one industry and negative racial attitudes, along with corruption, deindustrialization, etc. It is still a top 15 metro in population(12th), with 4.3 million people and plenty of fine areas to live in.
Boom and busts is in reference to housing prices and the recent recession is an example of this. Foreclosures didn't occur up here like other areas and Upstate NY areas had the lowest rates, if not the lowest(in the case of Syracuse) during that time period.
Happy New Year(God willing) as well.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 12-28-2014 at 03:34 PM..
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What are you going to say next that there is a park on every corner in upstate NY...
