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Old 07-24-2014, 03:57 AM
 
Location: Dallas
5,601 posts, read 4,933,024 times
Reputation: 16459

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If you and your son are working things out, your brother should butt out and keep his opinions to himself.
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Old 07-24-2014, 05:22 AM
 
3,723 posts, read 4,590,041 times
Reputation: 4746
Quote:
Originally Posted by WorldKlas View Post
I don't want to defend my son because the things he wrote were awful. He was a caring and really great son until he married and slowly during the first couple of years of his marriage he just grew more distant. His wife was already displaying really bad vibes to me during the time they became engaged and I was not invited to her bridal or baby shower. I never knew why.... I was a loving mother and always was involved in his childhood. Cub Scout den mother, always went on class field trips, etc. The things he blamed me in those emails for were really weird. (Example: at a company barbeque at my boss's home when he was 5, I went to check on him in the basement rec room where all the kids were corralled and found the boss's son had taken him to a closet and was trying to get my little kid to touch his penis.... I grabbed my kid and told the other boy who was 14 to never touch my kid again). I did later tell the boss's wife what happened. My son really had no memory of all this and when he was a teenager I told him about this event. In my son's email during that angry time, my son had stated that he was almost raped because I was off not paying attention to him and that the other boy never got in trouble because I cared more about my job than him). The email was filled with those kinds of accusations of my neglect and putting my career ahead of him. His facts were so distorted and i really believe over the years when he's told his wife stuff about growing up somehow he's been brainwashed into a new "spin" on the real events. I really was a good Mom and he really had a very happy childhood. We had lots of good times....

But, my son has not asked me for a loan. I offered to lend him the money for the difference between his share and the cost of the rent house. Same with his home loan. I offered.
I stopped reading when you started to blame the wife. Your son is an adult and he has autonomy of his actions. He doesn't have to act in any way he doesn't want to under anyone's influence.
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Old 07-24-2014, 07:20 AM
 
Location: sumter
8,548 posts, read 5,376,283 times
Reputation: 6590
Quote:
Originally Posted by WorldKlas View Post
I don't want to defend my son because the things he wrote were awful. He was a caring and really great son until he married and slowly during the first couple of years of his marriage he just grew more distant. His wife was already displaying really bad vibes to me during the time they became engaged and I was not invited to her bridal or baby shower. I never knew why.... I was a loving mother and always was involved in his childhood. Cub Scout den mother, always went on class field trips, etc. The things he blamed me in those emails for were really weird. (Example: at a company barbeque at my boss's home when he was 5, I went to check on him in the basement rec room where all the kids were corralled and found the boss's son had taken him to a closet and was trying to get my little kid to touch his penis.... I grabbed my kid and told the other boy who was 14 to never touch my kid again). I did later tell the boss's wife what happened. My son really had no memory of all this and when he was a teenager I told him about this event. In my son's email during that angry time, my son had stated that he was almost raped because I was off not paying attention to him and that the other boy never got in trouble because I cared more about my job than him). The email was filled with those kinds of accusations of my neglect and putting my career ahead of him. His facts were so distorted and i really believe over the years when he's told his wife stuff about growing up somehow he's been brainwashed into a new "spin" on the real events. I really was a good Mom and he really had a very happy childhood. We had lots of good times....

But, my son has not asked me for a loan. I offered to lend him the money for the difference between his share and the cost of the rent house. Same with his home loan. I offered.
As long as you know in your heart that you were a good mother, then don't beat yourself up over what he thinks. Sounds like your brother knows this and stands with you on that. I'm not sure I would have told my son about the incident involving the 14 year old kid trying to touch him inappropriately. He was 5 at the time and didn't remember it anyway. I would have educate him on the subject, but I wouldn't have told him about it. But that's just me op.
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Old 07-24-2014, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX and Las Vegas, NV
5,694 posts, read 4,415,996 times
Reputation: 11665
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipaper View Post
As long as you know in your heart that you were a good mother, then don't beat yourself up over what he thinks. Sounds like your brother knows this and stands with you on that. I'm not sure I would have told my son about the incident involving the 14 year old kid trying to touch him inappropriately. He was 5 at the time and didn't remember it anyway. I would have educate him on the subject, but I wouldn't have told him about it. But that's just me op.
Yes, I had also shared another incident with him from his very young days that of course he had no recollection of and it also was bullcrap fodder in a really distorted, targeted poison dart in those heated emails as evidence of his bad childhood.

We were close and had many heart to heart conversations when he was a teen. He is my only child. So maybe I told him stories I shouldn't have in the spirit of teachable moments for his "future parenting" and the chip on his shoulder distorted the message.

In our email exchange, he responded to my outrage over his accusations considering how loving a relationship we'd had with "When I had my own child and started to reflect, I realized the truth." Most of his outrage is that I was a working Mom. His own wife doesn't work. Of course that is made possible because of the very low house payment they have....his monthly payments are really only taxes and insurance. The loan balance to be paid with his trust share.

He hasn't apologized, and we never discuss that episode. But I carry it with me and probably should get some counseling, as has been suggested.....

Last edited by WorldKlas; 07-24-2014 at 07:59 AM..
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Old 07-24-2014, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX and Las Vegas, NV
5,694 posts, read 4,415,996 times
Reputation: 11665
The thing about the rental property is if we sell it, the Trust will net the same as if my son buys it at the investment value we have in it. So my brother would prefer to sell it and not have my son get the advantage of a lower price (no real estate commission)....

You guys are right; he really can get his own loan.....

My son has been the Landlord for that rent house at no charge to the Trust. But we each have done many things to care for my mother and no one of us has ever charged the trust. Its the one thing we all agreed on.
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Old 07-24-2014, 08:25 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
17,025 posts, read 17,342,168 times
Reputation: 41321
Quote:
Originally Posted by WorldKlas View Post
Yes, I had also shared another incident with him from his very young days that of course he had no recollection of and it also was bullcrap fodder in a really distorted, targeted poison dart in those heated emails as evidence of his bad childhood.

We were close and had many heart to heart conversations when he was a teen. He is my only child. So maybe I told him stories I shouldn't have in the spirit of teachable moments for his "future parenting" and the chip on his shoulder distorted the message.

In our email exchange, he responded to my outrage over his accusations considering how loving a relationship we'd had with "When I had my own child and started to reflect, I realized the truth." Most of his outrage is that I was a working Mom. His own wife doesn't work. Of course that is made possible because of the very low house payment they have....his monthly payments are really only taxes and insurance. The loan balance to be paid with his trust share.

He hasn't apologized, and we never discuss that episode. But I carry it with me and probably should get some counseling, as has been suggested.....
That is very interesting. He resents that he had a working mother when he was a child but because of her hard work, which allowed her to give him a very substantial no interest house loan, his wife doesn't have to work. IMHO, he is being quite ungrateful. He should have been sending you thank you notes of appreciation with his repayment checks. Perhaps not with every check, but does he even realize and acknowledge that the thing that he criticizes you for doing is what assisted his wife in being able to be a SAHM?

To give you an example from my life. My daughter is in her mid 20s, a college graduate who has not found a professional job yet. She is struggling financially. Sometimes she will need help paying her rent or with a specific bill. Every single time that we assist her she will say Thank You over the phone or via email. When she was in college and still today will frequently send little handwritten notes of appreciate for all that we do for her when she was growing up and today. We don't ask for these notes and they are not tied with our giving money to her but she sends them because she truly appreciates what we have done to help her.

Does your son really appreciate all that you have done for him and his family?
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Old 07-24-2014, 08:58 AM
 
Location: The Greater Houston Metro Area
8,988 posts, read 14,669,998 times
Reputation: 14876
Quote:
Originally Posted by germaine2626 View Post
That is very interesting. He resents that he had a working mother when he was a child but because of her hard work, which allowed her to give him a very substantial no interest house loan, his wife doesn't have to work. IMHO, he is being quite ungrateful. He should have been sending you thank you notes of appreciation with his repayment checks. Perhaps not with every check, but does he even realize and acknowledge that the thing that he criticizes you for doing is what assisted his wife in being able to be a SAHM?


Does your son really appreciate all that you have done for him and his family?
Agree.

Just want to add that - yes, you were a terrible mother. How dare you work to put food in his mouth? How dare you work to provide a roof over his head? You should be shot.

I am sorry. He sounds like one of the most ungrateful whiners out there. He built his world upon your hard work, has an easier life because of it - and then uses it to put you down. No wonder your brother doesn't like him.
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Old 07-24-2014, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX and Las Vegas, NV
5,694 posts, read 4,415,996 times
Reputation: 11665
thanks all, this has be cathartic for me. Its now an old wound that will never heal.

I wish my son wanted a deeper relationship with me that included family outings or even just being invited over for his birthday (his inlaws always are part of everything) but I won't hold my breath.

I wish my brother didn't know any of this, but since it all erupted over a holiday and my brother and I touch base over holidays and then I had my accident right after so he was very much aware. The fact that he's written his only nephew out of his own will saddens me but I accept and understand that my brother would rather see his own hard earned money go to deserving places.

I don't want the rent property to be just sold and we net nothing more. My parents wouldn't have wanted an asset wasted if one of the kids could directly benefit and no harm to the others. And my brother and I each don't want it. But my brother does feel lending my son my own money does harm one of us.

I have sufficient money. I have always offered when it doesn't involve harming me. I see my home loan to my son as the conduit to a future for my granddaughter.

But, as you all have clearly stated: my son can get his own loan, my brother is being a loving brother, I probably need to work on resolving my inner pain....

Really, really appreciate all y'alls time....
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Old 07-24-2014, 09:38 AM
 
3,723 posts, read 4,590,041 times
Reputation: 4746
Hi WorldKlas,

I'm sure you were the best mother that you could be. You got your son to adulthood no worse for wear and he is thriving because of you. But I don't want to completely dump on him because there are two sides. Maybe he feels like you're a bad mom because an emotional connection is missing. My mom worked hard to provide for me also and I'm very grateful but she never fostered a real relationship with me and that has set the course for our adult relationship. We never spent time together as a family because the necessities in life were more prioritized and then of course she was tired and didn't want to be bothered. I don't know if that's the case here or not but hopefully it's not too late to get the relationship you want. You need to find out from your son why he feels that you were a bad mom. It's not just because you worked. You can mend this. But don't be manipulated by guilt and do things that you should not. Lean on your brother for some objectivity and then form your own conclusion.

Last edited by trishguard; 07-24-2014 at 09:50 AM..
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Old 07-24-2014, 10:03 AM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
30,004 posts, read 16,597,455 times
Reputation: 22575
Quote:
Originally Posted by germaine2626 View Post
That is very interesting. He resents that he had a working mother when he was a child but because of her hard work, which allowed her to give him a very substantial no interest house loan, his wife doesn't have to work. IMHO, he is being quite ungrateful. He should have been sending you thank you notes of appreciation with his repayment checks. Perhaps not with every check, but does he even realize and acknowledge that the thing that he criticizes you for doing is what assisted his wife in being able to be a SAHM?

To give you an example from my life. My daughter is in her mid 20s, a college graduate who has not found a professional job yet. She is struggling financially. Sometimes she will need help paying her rent or with a specific bill. Every single time that we assist her she will say Thank You over the phone or via email. When she was in college and still today will frequently send little handwritten notes of appreciate for all that we do for her when she was growing up and today. We don't ask for these notes and they are not tied with our giving money to her but she sends them because she truly appreciates what we have done to help her.

Does your son really appreciate all that you have done for him and his family?
Sure doesn't sound like it. I will tell you this - I didn't have the perfect upbringing either; my Mother was probably bi-polar ( thanks to years of Psychology classes and my own counseling). I blamed her for YEARS for all that was wrong in my life.

Until I got to about age 35. Then, she was such a great help to me and a good grandmother - that I began to be able to see PAST her faults; to see the good and not just the bad. And there was plenty of good.

Like all parents ( you, me, the OP, ) she was doing the best she could with what she had available. OH and she was a SAHM so, of course, I was determined to be a working Mom.

Sounds like your Son still has some growing up to do. You did the best you could. You provided a stable financial environment, volunteered at school, scouts, etc. I would not waste one second feeling guilty about it. AND you are able to loan him money because you WORKED (does he not see the irony in that???)

I do think your brother should handle the estate as he sees fit but otherwise - butt out of your relationship with your son. It's nice that he has your back but . . you still want your son in your life.

PS: Just a little extra ~ my girlfriend strongly resents HER mother for NOT working when her father lost his job. So, we can't win. I mean we really can't.
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