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this reminds of Ozarks, the TV series.
In it, there is a situation, when a cartel boss tells story about his father, who owned a store. At that store, there was a female clerk who worked there for years, having complete trust of the store owner. One day, she was caught taking some cash out of register.
Boss's question was - what would you do to her? She provided a good excuse, sick child, etc.
Various opinions, mostly favoring her, were expressed. But the episode ends with the main character answering this question the way boss wanted it to hear. He said: she has to be fired. She stole before, this was simply first time she got caught.
Op, a lyre is a lyre. Lying is basically an inherent trait. Different story is, how some learn how to lie, some don't. but you either lie, or you don't.
I say same. She lied before. She'll lie again. This was simply first time she got caught.
I actually know what it feels like. I had best friend once. then, in matter of a short conversation, true nature came out and that was end to friendship. We met after few times, had few drinks. Pal stuff. But FRIENDSHIP was gone. That bond, that mental sharing - it was gone.
I don't think it's recoverable.
I agree that forgiveness can be achieved without rekindling the friendship. I've done it before and while it takes some time to get over the sting of being hurt, you can get to the point of feeling good about your journey forward and on to potential new relationships.
People choose by their behavior whether to be in someone's life or not. Most people know when they've crossed a line into "seriously, not cool" territory and by doing so they are ultimately making the choice to exit stage left, and out of a friend's life. They know, without anyone telling them, that no sane person would put up with being lied to or attacked, and in knowing this and acting in a way they know is wrong, they are essentially the one who is ending the friendship even if they try and play the role of victim. It took me a long time to come to this realization but it makes sense and reflects what's really going on under the surface.
When you run into her always choose the best path, being civil and pleasant, without any baggage dragged into the room. It doesn't have to be awkward, and once you get to a point of forgiveness you can keep moving forward in your life.
This just sucks all the way around. I'm really sorry (for all the good it does you).
Never knew anyone that was all bad nor all good. We've all got glitches, even the people that look like they've got it all together. And even our nearest and dearest. Sometimes small. Sometimes big. Sometimes obvious and right out there. Sometimes hidden, masked or disguised. Our character, courage, judgment and integrity comes out when we're tested. Your friend failed this test but you don't have to.
The good was mostly as you remember and appreciated. Some of the painful bad that you didn't know, you now do (due to pressure on her from others). It's said people are in our lives for "a reason, a season or a lifetime". There's gotta be a reason of good use moving forward in your life. Some of life's favors come wrapped in pain. Again, sucks for sure.
I never knew anyone that had perfect awareness or insight into other human beings, even those close to them. If you find somebody with that ability, let me know.
As my late mom would have said,"Her chickens will come home to roost". The old-timer version of "what goes around comes around." And that's pretty uniformly true. Your "friend" may not realize where any foul fowls in her life come from, but she'll have to deal with them all the same.
As my late mom would have said,"Her chickens will come home to roost". The old-timer version of "what goes around comes around." And that's pretty uniformly true. Your "friend" may not realize where any foul fowls in her life come from, but she'll have to deal with them all the same.
There are a few people in my life who hurt me so terribly bad, that the only satisfaction I feel when I think about them is the hope that they look back on their actions and the subsequent consequence (the complete and irrevocable loss of my friendship and presence in their lives forever) with deep regret and heartache.
Moving on to live a full and wonderful life is the very best revenge.
First post here and hoping in the right spot for this. Just wanted to throw this out to the masses and see what kind of feedback I get. There's a big backstory that I won't start with, just the end bits, so if there's questions I'll answer to backfill what I'm not putting into this post. I guess you could file this under "friendzone" or "unrequited love" or whatever.
I'm going to put the tl;dr at the top like I wish most people would:
My best and very, close friend (female) lied to me for several months after I told her that my feelings for her were too strong continue to "just be friends" so that I wouldn't take a step back from the friendship with her - to adjust my feelings back to a more neutral state - which she absolutely didn't want. I'm still hurt by the lying but miss my friend. I'd like to have her back in my life, but know I couldn't trust her like I did prior to the lying and the friendship would never be like it was. What would you do?
End tl;dr
So, as in the subject I had a female friend that I've known for about 20 years now going back to high school. We lost touch for a bit then reconnected after college and when we both moved back to our hometown we re-kindled our friendship and became, really, the best of friends. My friend and I started out as just friends. I liked hanging out with her and enjoyed our time when we'd do whatever. Dinner, movies, just talking walks in the park, whatever. It was nice to have someone to spend time with in between dating and just to pal around with. Most of my guy friends were long since paired off and into the raising kids phase before I came back into town.
As with most guy/girl friendships over time we spent more and more time together over the years to the point where we did just about everything together from the things mentioned before to taking long road trips, family dinners, spending holidays together and just about doing everything short of actually dating. And for the longest time I was more than fine with this situation, until one day I felt my feelings toward her beginning to change. During one of our trips out of town (we'd gone to Boston for the day), I had a mini-chat with her on the drive back (I'm a believer in just spitting things out upfront and being honest, especially with feelings/emotions) and told her at the time that I felt my feelings beginning to change and that I was ok with things as they stood at that time, but if things kept on the way they did I'd eventually "want more". For her part she didn't say much of anything. Which was no big deal, I wasn't going for a heart-to-heart, I just wanted to let her know that us being close was having an effect on me and she could do, or not do, what she needed from there. That was about 3-4 years ago.
From that time on every time I felt a change in me that had to do with her I'd bring it up. Not in a confrontational way, but to be keep communication open. Sort of a "hey, just so you know I think I'm starting to feel even more for you" so that she would know where I stood and so she could "shoot me down" if she didn't feel that same or just flat out didn't want to go there. I certainly didn't want to risk the friendship over something I couldn't control. And no, she never said anything about just staying friends or never having anything more, whatever. She usually just..let things pass is about the only way to put it.
Well, she continued to say little to nothing and we carried on like we always had as very, very close friends. As the years passed my feelings went from, 'I'm kind of falling for you' to full blown 'I'm in love with you'. Which I'd also clearly communicated with her every step of the way. (This is getting long so going to snip some things for the sake or brevity.)
Things came to a head recently when she told me she wanted to date again (we'd pretty much spent all our spare time together to this point) and I was like: 'ok, cool, good luck, but I want you to know that while I support you wanting to find someone, I cannot be there through another boyfriend with you. I've grown way too attached to you over the years and it would hurt me too much to see you trying to build a life with someone else. So, I need to take a step back because I am "too attached" to you emotionally and need to get my feelings for you in check.' Again, just me being honest and communicating. That was back in the spring of this year.
She didn't take that conversation well and basically wanted to talk me out of taking a step back right then and just seeing how things played out - I did. I should have stuck to my guns and just backed out, but, she was my best friend and I wanted to give it a shot. At the time she had told me she wasn't really into the guy she had started to date and that there was nothing there beyond a couple of dates and it wasn't likely to go anywhere. Or so she said...
Turns out that over the next 5 months from that talk she hid the fact that not only was she still dating this guy but that it had changed from dating to being engaged. Yes, my friend got engaged to some guy that she "was barely dating" in about 6 months time, while spending 5 of those months making it seem like there was no guy and that things were exactly the with her. She kept it a secret because she didn't want me to do what I said and take a step back from the relationship. Well, when the guy proposed to her very recently she finally broke down and told me about the engagement and all way after it had been done. During these few months the amount of contact between us had bee a fraction of what it normally would have been which was my first indication that something was up - once you know someone as well as we knew each other, those things are easy to pick up on. I was shocked and hurt to say the least. The fact that she was still with the guy didn't matter, it was that my best friend had spent the last 5 months lying to me and hiding a huge part of her life when she didn't have too. Then to top off the cake of dishonesty, at one point during her confessional I asked who sh told about the engagement as I wanted to see if I was the last to know. She said "I only told a couple of friends" while not telling me she also made an announcement on Facebook the day before telling me about it. That's more than the 2 friends she told me that she 'only' told. So she lied about that also. Now, to be fair she did say she made a wrong decision and that she was sorry, but at the time I was too upset to really listen and accept the apology - not that that would fix the broken trust or anything.
When I confronted her about all this she said she didn't tell me to spare my feelings all the while neglecting that if she hadn't lied to begin with, I'd have been a lot less hurt. I'd have gotten over the hurt feelings of her wanting another guy, that's no big deal, I'd dated other girls all through the course of our friendship, so I certainly couldn't be hypocritical that she found someone, but I have a hard time reconciling with the lying. So, I was understandably hurt and pissed at being lied to and wrote her a long email (not mean, but thorough) detailing how she hurt me and why what she did broke my trust. I probably shouldn't have sent it but, at that point I didn't see any coming back from the breach of trust. Once she got my email she then, briefly, wrote back that she could tell I was angry and that she agreed we could no longer be friends and to not contact her any more.
This is all very recent, and no, we haven't spoken since. My only thought at the moment, is that we were friends for a very long time and were very, very close and it sucks to lose a good friend, even for a just reason. People make mistakes, we're all human, and I'd like to have her back in my life at some point, as a friend, but I know it would never be the same friendship and I don't think I could ever trust her again. It's hard to cover almost a decade of close friendship in a few paragraphs on a message board, but wanted to get some thoughts on if I should take a chance and try to reconnect. Not anytime soon, the wounds are still too fresh, but I'm trying to not hold grudges anymore or hold onto negative feelings. In the long run, what's the point?
Thoughts?
Friend, the short answer is "no." Life does not work hoping for epiphanies. Staying friendly? Sure. But hoping she will not use you again? No.
Don't do it. The opportunity cost is simply too high. Live your life and do not look back.
Thanks, Kaye, your reply is just what I expect to run into. I know I'll see her at some sort of function or just out on the town at some point. And I'm not going to avoid the mutual people we both know just to not see her. Those people didn't do anything to me, so why should I remove them from my life just to potentially avoid some awkwardness? (Rhetorical question)
When you saw your friend at those functions did you attempt to speak to him? Or him to you? I'm not going to go around trying to avoid her, but I don't want to see her either. Especially not right away. I'm not ready to forgive, yet, but I'll get there.
Eventually I just won't care anymore, but by that point, I'm not sure if there'd be anything left to try and rekindle anyway. One of my other female friends thinks she'll contact me in the future and try to patch things up. I can see why she thinks that, I don't know that I'd be open to that though. Depending on when that contact may come.
Yes when I see him at functions it's just like nothing ever happened. We talk, hang out and everyone is happy. I know though, that he is a liar and I will not enter in to a renewed friendship again. This is enough to see him once in a while and in fact I have cut down on that as years went by, like I said. I am preferring to go to John-Doe-Free events now. It's the past for me.
OK, since you ask. I would never be "friends" with a girl I was likely to be attracted to. There's nothing to be gained except heartache. And when a girl was attracted to me, and I didn't share those feelings, I wouldn't lead her on like this girl did to you. My question is what did she get out of it, a devoted puppy dog? What did you get out of it, unrequited love? You say the friendship is more important than the romantic feelings you have, but I don't see how that is possible. Somewhere you must have a faint hope that this girl you are crushing on will share those feelings. Giving her "another chance" is to feed your hopes and her rejections.
OK, since you ask. I would never be "friends" with a girl I was likely to be attracted to. There's nothing to be gained except heartache. And when a girl was attracted to me, and I didn't share those feelings, I wouldn't lead her on like this girl did to you. My question is what did she get out of it, a devoted puppy dog? What did you get out of it, unrequited love? You say the friendship is more important than the romantic feelings you have, but I don't see how that is possible. Somewhere you must have a faint hope that this girl you are crushing on will share those feelings. Giving her "another chance" is to feed your hopes and her rejections.
I am not seeing how this woman led the OP on. It sounded like she thought he was going a little drastic cutting off the friendship because he had feelings, but she cut back quite a bit on how often they saw each other after that. That hardly seems to be the behavior of someone looking to lead another person on.
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