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It’s a little over a mile from South Street. 3 miles would get you to Kane’s Smokey Hollow thing which is extending the north end of downtown.
But it's close to 3 miles from current hot spots for residential/office development etc? This site is meant to spur development that will make it seamless with current development in the warehouse district, glenwood south etc
That's the location. It's not far from the core and obviously the idea is it will fill in and connect better in the future. It would be a massive extension of downtown if let's say in 25 years it's dense and all walkable from Peace street to almost I-40. Plus that side of downtown is completely neglected from the growth almost all the other sides are experiencing.
But it's close to 3 miles from current hot spots for residential/office development etc? This site is meant to spur development that will make it seamless with current development in the warehouse district, glenwood south etc
Well, it’s less than two miles to Fayetteville St, but certainly this a long-game thing.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the proposed downtown south site is atleast 3 miles from the actual CBD. Seems to me that this would hurt DTR with easy access to a major freeway similar to North Hills. Also find it amusing that Malik has gone from needing no public money to needing some for infrastructure investment to now wanting almost 300 million dollars
It's not simply asking for $300m. They are requesting to use the hospitality tax that's already designated for a range of projects the city has requested information on. It would break down to like $11m/yr over 30 years is what they are asking for from a tax fund that has already had leftover funds in the past. The investment and tax revenue created from this project would heavily outweigh what they are asking. Not to mention this is in a Opportunity Zone.
Well, it’s less than two miles to Fayetteville St, but certainly this a long-game thing.
No doubt, but it's a stretch to consider it DTR currently. Nobody considers the heart of NoDa in Charlotte as a part of Uptown but they are starting to grow toward each other
It's not simply asking for $300m. They are requesting to use the hospitality tax that's already designated for a range of projects the city has requested information on. It would break down to like $11m/yr over 30 years is what they are asking for from a tax fund that has already had leftover funds in the past. The investment and tax revenue created from this project would heavily outweigh what they are asking. Not to mention this is in a Opportunity Zone.
I understand the source of tax revenue & it's use. I was pointing out the fact that Malik openly proclaimed 2 years ago he was financing the stadium privately & unlike the Smith family bid he would only need minimal infrastructure related tax revenue. He wants 11 million for up to 25 yrs of which most wlll be used to pay off debt & the rest for maintenance. So he's basically asking for the city/county to pay for the stadium
That's the location. It's not far from the core and obviously the idea is it will fill in and connect better in the future. It would be a massive extension of downtown if let's say in 25 years it's dense and all walkable from Peace street to almost I-40. Plus that side of downtown is completely neglected from the growth almost all the other sides are experiencing.
Maybe. Maybeeee there will be some development between DT and this stadium site. But it will not be a dense, walkable stretch by any means. It wont be contiguous development.... At all. DT isn't really that dense. It's fragmented. Hopefully within the next 25 years the DT area just densifies in general. Particularly the area between Glenwood and DT in general needs to really get a shot in the arm of being integrated and adding a lot more density in that area.
Maybe in 50 years. Raleigh Metro excluding Durham Metro would need to be nearly 3M before it starts to become a dense cohesive area from this stadium site to downtown to Glenwood. Even then, competing with Durham and North Hills and maybe the RTP in the future will take away some development from the DT area.
I understand the source of tax revenue & it's use. I was pointing out the fact that Malik openly proclaimed 2 years ago he was financing the stadium privately & unlike the Smith family bid he would only need minimal infrastructure related tax revenue. He wants 11 million for up to 25 yrs of which most wlll be used to pay off debt & the rest for maintenance. So he's basically asking for the city/county to pay for the stadium
Right but this is a different plan. That was before this location, before Kane was involved etc etc. A $2 billion return investment into a current wasteland right outside of downtown is hopefully something the city falls over themselves to grant.
Maybe. Maybeeee there will be some development between DT and this stadium site. But it will not be a dense, walkable stretch by any means. At all. DT isn't really that dense. It's fragmented. Hopefully within the next 25 years the DT area just densifies in general. Particularly the area between Glenwood and DT in general needs to really get a shot in the arm of being integrated and adding a lot more density in that area.
I understand what you are saying but such a strong opinion simply isn't all that accurate. First of all, a majority of the big projects either under construction or happening in the very near future are the ones connecting and expanding downtowns density between Fayetteville St and Glenwood/Peace districts. Other then that, what else about downtown has any type of fragment?? Not sure what that even means. Idk that Glenwood can even be considered fragmented. Its very walkable. But yeah it's adding more density.
And obviously I'm thinking completely hypothetically with the "25 years" comment. But the stadium site is only 1.9miles from the Performing Arts center. There are already significant plans to develop south of downtown with the Gateway project and the Five Horizons proposal. Dorothea Dix park is to the west and will be an anchor to lord knows how much development interest. I guess I should clear up that I don't necessarily mean walkable in the sense that the streets are lined with shops and restaurants. But tons of tons of residential at the very least. There will absolutely be a hotbed of opportunity for developers to connect the two areas. It would be natural development. Especially on a BRT artery.
I get everyone's natural skepticism about the project and how it would work in Raleigh right NOW. But without living here and being significantly more informed on what's planned and the vision behind it, it can be hard to visualize it. Projects like this are long term city building catalysts that every city experiences. Hopefully this one becomes a reality for ours.
I understand what you are saying but such a strong opinion simply isn't all that accurate. First of all, a majority of the big projects either under construction or happening in the very near future are the ones connecting and expanding downtowns density between Fayetteville St and Glenwood/Peace districts. Other then that, what else about downtown has any type of fragment?? Not sure what that even means. Idk that Glenwood can even be considered fragmented. Its very walkable. But yeah it's adding more density.
And obviously I'm thinking completely hypothetically with the "25 years" comment. But the stadium site is only 1.9miles from the Performing Arts center. There are already significant plans to develop south of downtown with the Gateway project and the Five Horizons proposal. Dorothea Dix park is to the west and will be an anchor to lord knows how much development interest. I guess I should clear up that I don't necessarily mean walkable in the sense that the streets are lined with shops and restaurants. But tons of tons of residential at the very least. There will absolutely be a hotbed of opportunity for developers to connect the two areas. It would be natural development. Especially on a BRT artery.
I get everyone's natural skepticism about the project and how it would work in Raleigh right NOW. But without living here and being significantly more informed on what's planned and the vision behind it, it can be hard to visualize it. Projects like this are long term city building catalysts that every city experiences. Hopefully this one becomes a reality for ours.
It's not enough by any means. They feel completely separate. From Hillsborough Street up North, it's so. It'a typical 1970's governmental building wasteland feeling. A few retail-less mega blocks of 5 floor Apartment buildings don't make that area full of energy or density. The Development at Peace and Capital is fabulous, but still there. It's more towards the Glenwood area. completely an island from again, the rest of DT. Not to mention, the Train tracks and highway cut it off in most areas too.
But the biggest sticking point is all the government buildings. Take a walk down West Street. Yeah. It's got buidlings in between but its beyond lifeless.
Infill needs to happen between Glenwood South and the Warehouse District and everything in between. Otherwise, it'll be a collection of pockets of nice urbanism with deplorable governmental buildings and streets in between. All I ask for at this point is development, redevelopments, street activation between Glenwood and Warehouse.
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It's not simply asking for $300m. They are requesting to use the hospitality tax that's already designated for a range of projects the city has requested information on. It would break down to like $11m/yr over 30 years is what they are asking for from a tax fund that has already had leftover funds in the past. The investment and tax revenue created from this project would heavily outweigh what they are asking. Not to mention this is in a Opportunity Zone.
