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Then again, I don't think the OP was asking about where they can ice skate or buy a good steak. I think the question was which area has the best opportunity for future growth. I think this thread has clealry demonstrated that both areas are poised for a lot of growth in the future.
Correction. There are THREE places to go outdoor ice skating in Raleigh. Don't forget to include North Hills and Briar Creek.
7 oh 4's post is very trivial and anecdotal. It's like saying where in Charlotte can you have the state gov't, RTP, ACC powerhouses... Hello? They are uniquely different cities with there own strength's and weaknesses!
You should not compare Charlotte & Raleigh. It takes several areas "Triangle" (Raleigh, Durham, Cary, Chapel Hill & others)...and you still have a smaller population than 1 city "Charlotte".
Of course Wake county is going to surpass Mecklenburg county in population...it is 60% larger in land area.
Assertion #1 is inaccurate. The combined population of the Raleigh, Durham, Cary and Chapel Hill city limits is over 800,000 people: making the total greater than than the city of Charlotte. In fact, the combination of Raleigh, Durham and Cary (without Chapel Hill) is more populated than Charlotte. While I understand the point you are trying to make, be careful with your statistics. Interestingly, the total land area of the 3 aforementioned Triangle cities closely proximates that of Charlotte within just a few square miles.
According to one report by the state this Summer, Wake County has already surpassed Mecklenburg in population. At over 900,000 Wake County is still only ~35% municipal (292 square miles). Mecklenburg is listed as ~74% municipal (389 square miles). So, it's correct to assume that Wake's total population will distance itself from Mecklenburg in decades to come. Wake has an enviable advantage of having more land available in the metro's core county. This is a growth advantage that the Raleigh area enjoys.
It's also interesting to note that both Raleigh and Cary have a denser municipal population than Charlotte. While Charlotte certainly enjoys a denser core of its city, its overall city limits is more sprawled (or perhaps more is undeveloped?).
No municipality in Wake County will ever reach the land size of Charlotte. At 143 square miles, Raleigh is about half the land area of Charlotte but more than half its population. The city is hemmed on most sides by other municipalities and there just isn't another 143 square miles to annex. Raleigh and the Triangle will always be an ensemble of cities that make up a mosaic metro area where city limits are blurred. This does not diminish the area vis-a-vis other metros whose more singular focus is exemplified by Charlotte.
As Wake County grows in population, its municipalities will also grow. Apex will eventually join Cary in the 100,000+ club as Cary pushes past 200,000. Raleigh will probably settle somewhere in the 550-600,000 range when Wake County reaches 1.5 million. This sort of dynamic will never exist in Mecklenburg and the two can't be compared on an apples to apples format. Simply put, the counties have 2 completely different municipal models. (One of the best and most extreme examples of this would be in Florida where MiamiDade is clearly the most populated county while Jacksonville is its largest municipality). While Raleigh was never a big player in the past, it is certainly making a big push and is taking attention away from its big sister to the West. It's inevitable as the Raleigh area continues to lead the pace in growth for the nation over the next 15-20 years. The good folks in Charlotte just better get used to sharing the limelight. NC isn't a one trick pony anymore.
^^^I won't even bother pointing out the flaws in your numbers (and logic) this time. I'll just say that Raleigh's metro will continue to have a larger rate of growth (Charlotte's metro will continue to have a larger numerical growth).
As for NC not being a "one trick pony anymore", honestly dude NC NEVER was such a thing. Raleigh (and several other NC cities) used to be larger than Charlotte. At one point, the Triad was NC's largest metro area. What YOU need to get used to is the fact that Charlotte has emerged as NC's ONLY city with "big city" respect. Hopefully, Raleigh will join us in 15 to 20 years.
^^^I won't even bother pointing out the flaws in your numbers (and logic) this time. I'll just say that Raleigh's metro will continue to have a larger rate of growth (Charlotte's metro will continue to have a larger numerical growth).
As for NC not being a "one trick pony anymore", honestly dude NC NEVER was such a thing. Raleigh (and several other NC cities) used to be larger than Charlotte. At one point, the Triad was NC's largest metro area. What YOU need to get used to is the fact that Charlotte has emerged as NC's ONLY city with "big city" respect. Hopefully, Raleigh will join us in 15 to 20 years.
Why not bother? Perhaps you won't bother because I actually looked up my numbers before posting them?
As for numerical growth, that remains to be seen. Growth within the actual current MSA's/CSA's might be augmented by the addition or subtraction of counties to either or both areas. For now, Raleigh/Cary is only 3 counties. In the future, the Census Bureau might expand it to include others. The same might be true for Charlotte.
Moderator cut: tos violation
Last edited by SunnyKayak; 12-16-2009 at 05:00 PM..
I stand by my previous statements. There is not a need to debate what is obvious. By most stats (city pop., CSA pop, skyline, GDP, downtown amenities, etc) Charlotte is a top 25 US city. Raleigh is a top 50. It is what it is. Compare Raleigh to Greensboro for god's sake and leave Charlotte out of YOUR pathetic Raleigh boosterism. SERIOUSLY. Any fool that has visited Charlotte and Raleigh already knows the difference. Besides, this thread is about growth anyways (the ONLY stat both Raleigh and Charlotte have in common). Too bad Raleigh's growth is NOT going towards building an interesting 21st century modern city. Maybe things will change in 15 to 20 years. For now, give me uptown or get me out of NC. Just my two cents...
Lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Uptown makes up less than 2% of Charlotte! What's wrong with the rest of the city?
Moderator cut: personal attack
Last edited by SunnyKayak; 12-16-2009 at 04:54 PM..
Uptown makes up less than 2% of Charlotte! What's wrong with the rest of the city?
It seems someone really has an obsession with phallic symbols.
If Raleigh had a downtown like Charlotte's uptown, YOU (and a few others) would not feel the need to visit Charlotte as often as you do. It is what it is.
Besides, even NC's official visitors website gives Charlotte the props and respect Charlotte has earned.
^^^I won't even bother pointing out the flaws in your numbers (and logic) this time.
It sure is hard for you to point out flaws in numbers when the numbers are based on facts rather than opinions and misinformation isn't it?
Welcome to the real world where people use facts to support statements of truth. LOL
But please by all means provide as much annecdotal population data you want. I'm sure the OP could use a good laugh.
Just remember the OP is asking about best potential future growth. Try not to turn this into one of your circular logic daydreams about MSA/CSA would, coulda, shoulda train-wrecks.
It sure is hard for you to point out flaws in numbers when the numbers are based on facts rather than opinions and misinformation isn't it?
Welcome to the real world where people use facts to support statements of truth. LOL
But please by all means provide as much annecdotal population data you want. I'm sure the OP could use a good laugh.
Just remember the OP is asking about best potential future growth. Try not to turn this into one of your circular logic daydreams about MSA/CSA would, coulda, shoulda train-wrecks.
I am NOT a genie; therefore I (nor YOU) have ANY real clue what the future holds when it comes to growth. However, here is the trend since 2000 straight from the US census.
stats on all 8 Triangle MSA/CSA counties
1,311,867 (2000 population)
1,690,557 (2008 population)
378,690 people added (2000-2008)
29% growth rate (2000-2008)
4,476 sq/mi land area
stats on 7 out of 13 Charlotte MSA/CSA counties
1,491,690 (2000 population)
1,906,742 (2008 population)
415,052 people added (2000-2008)
28% growth rate (2000-2008)
3,440 sq/mi land area
Even with the 1,036 sq/mi disadvantage I gave to Charlotte in this comparison, Charlotte still out grew the ENTIRE Triangle numerically by 36,362 people in an 8 year period. The other 6 counties for Charlotte (I did not mention above) saw a growth of nearly 26,000 people from 2000-2008. This gives Charlotte's entire CSA a 60,000 plus higher numerical growth than the entire Triangle CSA. If this trend were to continue for the next 10 to 20 years....... Well, you get the point.
It is GREAT that NC has two areas that are booming. However, the Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill trio WILL NOT yield a "major city" anytime soon. When it comes to building an interesting 21st century city, the layout of the Triangle is Raleigh's worst enemy; not Charlotte. In time, Charlotte's emerging "big city" image could have the Triangle desperately searching for ways to keep some Triangle area kids from dreaming of moving to Charlotte when they grow up. Such a thing can affect future growth patterns if Raleigh doesn't step it up. Just saying...
I am NOT a genie; therefore I (nor YOU) have ANY real clue what the future holds when it comes to growth
Whoever said a genie can tell the future? I thought they only granted wishes!
I wish the OP well wherever they move. Let's not go down the rabbit hole of selecively cherry picking MSA/CSA numbers to bolster inaccurate claims urby. That is really tired and doesn't help the OP. I think rnc2mbfl made some very good points based on facts and articualted his points in a way that is actually helpful to the OP. Here is what he said again:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnc2mbfl
Assertion #1 is inaccurate. The combined population of the Raleigh, Durham, Cary and Chapel Hill city limits is over 800,000 people: making the total greater than than the city of Charlotte. In fact, the combination of Raleigh, Durham and Cary (without Chapel Hill) is more populated than Charlotte. While I understand the point you are trying to make, be careful with your statistics. Interestingly, the total land area of the 3 aforementioned Triangle cities closely proximates that of Charlotte within just a few square miles.
According to one report by the state this Summer, Wake County has already surpassed Mecklenburg in population. At over 900,000 Wake County is still only ~35% municipal (292 square miles). Mecklenburg is listed as ~74% municipal (389 square miles). So, it's correct to assume that Wake's total population will distance itself from Mecklenburg in decades to come. Wake has an enviable advantage of having more land available in the metro's core county. This is a growth advantage that the Raleigh area enjoys.
It's also interesting to note that both Raleigh and Cary have a denser municipal population than Charlotte. While Charlotte certainly enjoys a denser core of its city, its overall city limits is more sprawled (or perhaps more is undeveloped?).
No municipality in Wake County will ever reach the land size of Charlotte. At 143 square miles, Raleigh is about half the land area of Charlotte but more than half its population. The city is hemmed on most sides by other municipalities and there just isn't another 143 square miles to annex. Raleigh and the Triangle will always be an ensemble of cities that make up a mosaic metro area where city limits are blurred. This does not diminish the area vis-a-vis other metros whose more singular focus is exemplified by Charlotte.
As Wake County grows in population, its municipalities will also grow. Apex will eventually join Cary in the 100,000+ club as Cary pushes past 200,000. Raleigh will probably settle somewhere in the 550-600,000 range when Wake County reaches 1.5 million. This sort of dynamic will never exist in Mecklenburg and the two can't be compared on an apples to apples format. Simply put, the counties have 2 completely different municipal models. (One of the best and most extreme examples of this would be in Florida where MiamiDade is clearly the most populated county while Jacksonville is its largest municipality). While Raleigh was never a big player in the past, it is certainly making a big push and is taking attention away from its big sister to the West. It's inevitable as the Raleigh area continues to lead the pace in growth for the nation over the next 15-20 years. The good folks in Charlotte just better get used to sharing the limelight. NC isn't a one trick pony anymore.
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Just my two cents...
Well, you get the point.
