Smoking Ban bill as been passed (York, Penn: credit, university, live)

[FightinPhils]

Originally Posted by thecoalman

I can say I never do it in my car because I'm in the habit of using the ashtray. Can't say never otherwise but rarely is the case, more of bad habit I picked up as youth. It's not something I consciously do. The point is you're making smokers out to be some kind of mass litterers when its not just smokers. It's like saying look at all the garbage on the side of the road, 99% of the people in PA are litterers.

There is no way that 99% of people in PA are litterers. I never litter, I actually make it a point to pick up litter when I see it. Even when I was a smoker, I didn't litter, if I had to stomp out my cigarette and put it in my pocket, I did that. Sure, there are nonsmoking litterers as well, but not a majority. Actually, a lot of the non-cigarette litter we see on the sides of our highways is trash that blows out of the garbage trucks from all of the out-of-state trash that our local landfills takes in.

[thecoalman]

I wasn't suggesting 99% of PA residents are litterers, that's just as absurd as suggesting 99% of PA smokers are litterers. I'd have to disgree about the majority of blowing out of trucks though. I was in the trucking business and I can assure you the fines for not properly securing a load are not a couple of bucks.

Edit: Just to add that doesn't explain the huge amount of trash everywhere else.

[The Commish]

Originally Posted by thecoalman

I wasn't suggesting 99% of PA residents are litterers, that's just as absurd as suggesting 99% of PA smokers are litterers.

Oh yeah?

Ask your smoker friends if they never do it.

[thecoalman]

Actually most of friends do smoke and are very conscious of not littering... I'll tell you a little story.. We used to do a lot of camping, not "fake" camping but the real deal where you put a pack on your back and go out in the woods. Anyhow we got caught the one time by a landowner on a spot that we went too frequently, we thought we had permission to be there but it was his neighbors property we had permission to be on. I'll quote the comment from his wife that was present too... "We can't even find a cigarette butt"... true story. In any event they gave us permission to continue to use their land. They were quite impressed at how clean we left it. Only thing you'd find after we left was LESS garbage.

So to address your comment us smokers are not necessarily litterers and in my case me and most of friends are the exact opposite. We've taken garbage out of the woods left by others. Most likely non-smokers since smokers aren't know to be traipsing around in the backwoods.

[The Commish]

Originally Posted by thecoalman

So to address your comment us smokers are not necessarily litterers and in my case me and most of friends are the exact opposite. We've taken garbage out of the woods left by others. Most likely non-smokers since smokers aren't know to be traipsing around in the backwoods.

I'm talking about littering cigarette butts and littering cigarette butts only.

Try to stay on topic.

[thecoalman]

My reply specifically addressed your insinuation about that my friends (and other smokers) littered butts everywhere, its not me that went off topic but you. Just because you don't like the answer isn't my problem. If you want to stay on topic perhaps you should consider dropping the littering debate as it really has nothing to do with this bill, it wasn't me that brought it in the first place.

You can always tell when someone knows they are losing a debate.

[The Commish]

Originally Posted by thecoalman

My reply specifically addressed your insinuation about that my friends (and other smokers) littered butts everywhere, its not me that went off topic but you.

I'm saying smokers do it- period.

Not that they do it everywhere. You said "no way 99% of smokers litter their butts." Well, maybe many of them don't do it as a regular practice, but you have to admit at the very least that every once in a while nearly all smokers will litter their cigarette butts. Younger smokers are probably the worst offenders here.

[NYRangers 2008]

Originally Posted by MrKrabs

I never said all smokers were drunks and loud people....I was specifically referring to people frequenting bars late at night, and the effect a smoking ban would have on residential neighborhoods with bars with smokers outside on sidewalks smoking, rather than inside smoking, I was making a point that, for places like Scranton with a lot of neighborhood bars, it might be best that they allowed an exemption for the small corner bars. People who are out consuming alcohol for hours on end...its safe to say they've had enough to drink to be loud, especially for a residential neighborhood late at night, if they're outside smoking at 1 am by a bar, chances are they'll be pretty loud to nearby residents trying to sleep. I wasn't referring to all smokers, just the bar patrons, and the effect that their smoking outside would have on these neighborhoods.

But as for littering, yes, a vast majority of smokers are litterers....look anywhere around you outside: sidewalks, roadsides, parks, etc, and you are bound to see discarded cigarette butts. Especially at intersections...the piles of cigarette butts are disgusting. I still can't understand why so many smokers think its their right to thrown their butts on the ground? Is it that hard to dispose of it properly? Its another reason why smokers are despised by much society.

When I'm driving, I see people all of the time flicking their butts out the window. This is littering from a disgusting habit. Why should we look around and see cigarette butts everywhere. But I also see a lot of garbage like cans and bottles and bags from fast food joints scattered around the roads. These people are slobs in general regardless if they smoke or not.

[thecoalman]

And my point is litter is an endemic issue in NEPA, its not just smokers causing it. As I mentioned I traveled much of the country, I can tell you when I pulled up to a light at most places in this country you didn't see the mass of litter and butts you see at many intersections here. It's easy to point the finger at smokers because the butts are easily identified however if you take the time to look beyond the curb you'll find plenty of other garbage. How many times have you driven down the road after a cleanup and seen bag after bag of trash waiting to get picked up? That's not cigarette butts in there.

[The Commish]

Originally Posted by thecoalman

And my point is litter is an endemic issue in NEPA, its not just smokers causing it.

So what?

No one ever claimed smokers were the only people who littered.

We're only talking about smokers who litter cigarette butts.